1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

KJV 3:Rev. 16:5

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by robycop3, May 27, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Stratton7

    Stratton7 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2020
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    23
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is it? You still haven’t shared where I can find an inerrant, infallible and inspired Bible today? The originals don’t exist or we don’t certainly have them. So where has God preserved His words for us today? It can’t be in the majority of versions where they differ from one another.
     
  2. Michael Hollner

    Michael Hollner Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2021
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You obviously did not even read the link, for the manuscript evidence has nothing to do with Beza.

    Proverbs 18:13 (KJV)?
     
  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Although the original autographs are not known to exist on earth, the preserved Scriptures in the original language still exist in the multiple manuscripts and in printed editions. I believe God is just as faithful to preserve His words today as He was before 1611.

    The KJV was based on multiple, varying original-language editions of the Scriptures so why can't the Scriptures be in multiple varying original-language editions as it was before 1611? I have reprint editions of some of the printed original-language texts on which the KJV is said to be based. Would KJV-only advocates suggest that those editions are not the word of God so that the KJV was not translated from the word of God? Do the Scriptures actually teach that each believer has to have a complete, every-word perfect edition of all the Scriptures in one volume?

    Do you ignore how that new believers in the book of Acts are said to have received the word of God even though they did not have an complete, every-word, inerrant scroll or copy of the entire Scriptures [all the New Testament had not yet been given and written]? It would have likely taken months for the multiple scrolls to be copied that would be needed to contain the entire Old Testament in the original languages.

    While having all the Scriptures in one printed volume has not been demonstrated to be essential, there are some printed one volume editions with both the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament. One example would be The Interlinear Bible edited by Jay Green, and it also includes an English translation.

    It is KJV-only reasoning that seems to suggest that God failed to preserve some of His exact, specific words given by inspiration to the prophets and apostles so that they supposedly had to be restored from imperfect Latin translations or other language translations or regiven in 1611.
     
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    yeah, you KJV deluded guys should take real note of that verse in Proverbs! You just cannot admit that this is only a VERSION of the Bible, amoung hundreds of others, none of which are Inspired by the Holy Spirit, and MUST have human errors!!!
     
  5. Stratton7

    Stratton7 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2020
    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    23
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Proverbs 22:21
     
  6. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    KJV-only advocates do not answer with only words of truth since often they answer with invalid questions that assume unproven premises, with assumptions based on use of fallacies, with assertions that are not proven to be true, and even with assertions that are not true.

    Assumptions based on fallacies such as begging the question are not certain words of truth.
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,396
    Likes Received:
    672
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We must assume something physical doesn't exist if we can't detect it. OTOH, God is only physical when He chooses to be, but there are plentya other proofs of His existence. And He is alive, while manuscripts are not.

    So, my assertion remains correct unless/until can show us a manuscript that proves it wrong.
     
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But, you are not everywhere present. You cannot know any more than what you experience.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,396
    Likes Received:
    672
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Either the evidence exists or it doesn't. We must assume it doesn't exist til seen.
     
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think that you are wasting your time with these guys, who are not interested in the EVIDENCE, but keep on banging that silly drum of the KJV being "perfect"! They are DELUDED.
     
  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    708
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I prefer to think God watches over his word and provided the KJV to the church for centuries. It is a matter of faith. But you prefer to doubt.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    :Sleep:Sleep:Sleep
     
  14. Michael Hollner

    Michael Hollner Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2021
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Baptist
    'Although the original autographs are not known to exist on earth, the preserved Scriptures in the original language still exist in the multiple manuscripts and in printed editions,

    Does your book say this exact statement? If so, what page?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    KJV-only faith is too often blind faith in opinions and unproven assertions of men instead of Biblical faith in what God said as recorded in the Scriptures.

    I would think that it would be better to doubt non-scriptural opinions of men than it would be to be deceived by believing assertions that are not true and that are not scriptural.

    What KJV-only advocates sometimes try to justify or excuse as being a matter of faith is instead a matter of being deceived by acceptance of assertions that are not true and scriptural.
     
  16. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Just to remind you, the original reference to the manuscripts was not about the autographs of Peter and Paul, but rather where you wrote, "...that the best, most-accurate New Testament manuscripts are the oldest-known ancient Greek ones." To use your own words directed to that topic:

    "BY WHAT AUTHORITY do you believe the [oldest manuscripts are best] myth?...no doctrine of faith/worship not found in Scripture can be true. And we know the MAN-MADE origin of [oldest is best]."

    "That belief is taught as a doctrine in many circles, while many of us, including I, believe it's false."

    "Without any AUTHORITY for the [oldest is best] doctrine, we can only conclude it's FALSE, and should not be believed by any Christian."
    And yet, "naturally, they would've been written in Greek" is a man's words, your words to be exact, without one quark of evidence from the Scriptures themselves that the autographs were written in Greek. To quote an authority, "It's entirely man-made, with no Scriptural backing whatsoever."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I typed up that post without pasting anything from any of my books.
    I do not think that statement is in my 2003 book.

    My computer file for my 2003 book is greatly revised, corrected, and expanded, perhaps from around 600 pages to over 1,000 pages. In addition, I have written six other books that are in print and have another almost finished.
     
  18. Michael Hollner

    Michael Hollner Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2021
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks for your honesty. I would recommend adding your statement, "Although the original autographs are not known to exist on earth.........

    In all due honesty, I have revised several statements in my book also based on giving some better clarification to some of your questions, so I guess in an odd way (in that we agree to disagree) we are helping each other.

    Blessings....
     
  19. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    464
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I try to help KJV-only advocates remove incorrect claims from their writings although often they do not seem to listen.

    I had asked around 20 believers to read and review copies of manuscript copies of my 2003 book before I had it printed. Some of them would be KJV defenders or KJV-only advocates. One KJV-only advocate sent me his suggestions on part of my manuscript, but then he stopped because he thought he was helping me too much or was helping me make my points stronger.
     
  20. Michael Hollner

    Michael Hollner Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2021
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is good, but remember I said 'better clarification,' not 'incorrect claims.'
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...