Hebrews 9:27

It's been my understanding that the MAIN reason for writing the Book of Hebrews was to encourage & edify the Jewish-background Christians in their struggles with the Jewish legalists who proclaimed that since the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed (This occurred in AD 70.), all rights & all privileges thereto, were now controlled completely by the OT Jewish Priesthood. Since that priesthood had already killed Jesus Christ, these Jewish-born Christians rightly assumed that they would next on the Priesthood's death list. Stephen was killed by them (Acts 6:5-8), so they rightly assumed that some, if not all, would be next on the Priesthood's list. OTOH, the writer of Hebrews goes back to the OT times to show them that by faith, they too could defeat certain death by being & doing what these OT saints did--By FAITH (Hebrews Ch. 11). The salvation of these OT was secure, and so would these NT era saints. IMHO, it wasn't so much these NT era Jewish-background's eternal destiny that was in question, but rather their day-to-day living (i.e., their SANCTIFICATION) that was, like Stephen's) being put to the test by these NT Priesthood advocates. IMHO, in fact, was the primary reason(s) for the remainder of the NT's books (James through to and including Revelation). While Revelation itself is a picture of how the NT Priesthood (Empowered by Satan himself) continually attempted to destroy these NT Jewish-background Christians (& to some extent seemingly did [As in the case of the Laodiceans in Rev. 3:14-18 ff]), In Rev. 12:10-11, these very same NT Jewish-background Christians DID overcome their foes!

 

I believe God knew before the foundation of the world, or let's put it the way God stated to Jeremiah; Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

It was Heziekiel who did not know what God had planed for him.

 

I quoted your post. I didn’t make up anything.

It is clear you don’t want to discuss what you posted, only continue the false assertion that I “made something up”.

Therefore, this conversation is fruitless.

I’ll leave you to it.

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

That’s how I see it. God knew He would extend his life by 15 years. The appointed time of death did not change.

peace to you

 

I'll never understand why, whenever we mention human free will changing the course of the future (except where blocked by God), that is always perceived by the Calvinist brethren (not saying you are one) as somehow negating God's foreknowledge or power. I'll never understand why their Omnipotent God is only ever able to be the God of the future by determining it linearly. A God that foresees all possible futures at arrives at certain desired points while navigating the future-changing decisions of human free will is infinitely greater (by the proportion of an infinite number of potential futures VS 1) than a God of a single pre-written line of future actualized by fully pre-programmed automatons.

 

Of course.

Of course not. It changed. The scriptures say it did. No need to help God out.

God's foreknowledge does not = God's predetermined plan.

Those two things are scripturally and logically different.

 

The only possible future is the one God already knows.

If you think you can imagine a greater God than revealed in scripture, you are coming close to idolatry.

peace to you

 

No one was "born again" in the Old Testament, brother.
Peter says the new birth only became possible through the resurrection of Christ:
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The new birth was prophesied in the OT, yes, but as a future reality, not a present one.

 

Right back at you.

 

Yes, God’s foreknowledge equals a pre-determined plan. History will occur exactly as God has planned.

peace to you

 

Sure, if I were imagining God as someone other than revealed in scripture, but I accept scripture.

Thus the difference

peace to you

 

Only certain desired outcomes of his, yes, but not everything.
He could could have done it for everything, of course, but he didn't, because then he would simply be the cause of all evil and a ruler only capable of ruling what he writes, unable to handle free will. A sad excuse for a God that would be.
The God of the Bible is far greater.

 

What if the rebellion was required for another purpose of God?

Let there be light Gen 1 - God who said, Out of darkness light, to shine, 2 Cor 4:6 What darkness?

At that moment; Where was, the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan? Had the devil already sinned? Had the devil already produced works, that needed to be destroyed 1 John 3:8 ? Would that require man, a anthrōpos, a man in rebellion? A living (natural) soul 1 Cor 15:45,46 ?

 

Brother, the scriptures say the date of Hezekiah's death changed.

2Ki_20:1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.

Did God foreknow that the king would pray and he would give him an extra 15 years? Of course.

No one says God had no foreknowledge, the scriptures say he does.

But the scriptures don't say that God had already planned for that life-lengthening episode to happen.

You're reading something that isn't there. And if it is there in the story: QUOTE IT.

 

That is why we say that only high-Calvinists are honest/consistent with their system.
They don't suddenly forsake determinism to adopt the softer "permission" for free will once they hit uncomfortable territory.
You know very well that Calvinism's "ordained" = "determined".
God made Adam and Eve sin in that system.

 

And so we disagree. Jesus said not a single sparrow falls from the sky apart from God’s knowledge.

Jesus is said to sustain all things by His power. That sounds like He’s involved in all things.

You reject God as revealed in scripture, replacing Him with a God of your own imagination, and then claim you follow scripture.

Again, we disagree

thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

Agreed. That's not the point of contention. Yet again. No one is denying God's foreknowledge.
I'm saying "foreknown" does not equal "foredetermined".

Agreed. Again not the point of contention. And that's a quote about Christ sustaining the physical world from falling apart:
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

How exactly did you prove that?

 

Of course God already planned for that situation. Do you think God was surprised when the king got sick?

peace to you

 

Your on words prove that

thanks for the conversation

peace to you

 

Again. Read. Carefully. Again. Please. PLEASE.

God foreknew the situation, he was not surprised. I agree with you on that.
My point of contention is that "foreknowledge" does not equal "foredetermination".
It's simple enough. What's the hiccup here, except not listening?