Hebrews 9:27

[George Antonios]

Your on words prove that

thanks for the conversation

peace to you

Yeah ok, I'll take that as a non-response. God bless you.

 

[canadyjd]

Brother, the scriptures say the date of Hezekiah's death changed.

2Ki_20:1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live…..

I don’t see those words. The prophet told him he was going to die (no specific date given). God healed him and told him he would live another 15 years.

Even if God changed the date, there is no denying that God is setting the date he would die.

peace to you

 

[percho]

Brother, the scriptures say the date of Hezekiah's death changed.

2Ki_20:1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah the son of Amoz came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.

Did God foreknow that the king would pray and he would give him an extra 15 years? Of course.

No one says God had no foreknowledge, the scriptures say he does.

But the scriptures don't say that God had already planned for that life-lengthening episode to happen.

You're reading something that isn't there. And if it is there in the story: QUOTE IT.

Did Hezekiah choose to be a man of faith, of Abraham, ie, of God or did God choose Hezekiah to be a man of faith, of Abraham, of God?

To be of the faith, of Abraham which I believe to be, the faith of God, which I believe to be, the learned obedience of the Son of God Heb 5:7,8 Phil 2:8

 

[Yeshua1]

Material false statements without quotes are the stock and trade of Calvinism...

I am pretty sure all Calvinists lean toward exhaustive determinism, God's knowledge of the future fixes the future and no other outcome is possible. However, that view is malarkey.

What the verse seems to me to be saying is there are no second chances for salvation after we physically die. Judgment is swift and sure, and the lost are condemned already. John 3:18.

OTOH, God is the God of continuing chances as long as we live, therefore repent and believe.

The only other option would be Open theism, do you hold to that?

 

[George Antonios]

Even if God changed the date

He did. It says he did.

there is no denying that God is setting the date he would die.

Of course there is no denying of that. I never did. No one did.

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course.



Of course not. It changed. The scriptures say it did. No need to help God out.

God's foreknowledge does not = God's predetermined plan.

Those two things are scripturally and logically different.

The plans and purposes of God are predestined/ordained by Him, so His foreknowledge is because of Him already setting outcomes!

 

[George Antonios]

Did Hezekiah choose to be a man of faith

Yes, of course, it was Hezekiah's choice. Hence the responsibility God places on him, and on every man.

 

[Yeshua1]

Again. Read. Carefully. Again. Please. PLEASE.

God foreknew the situation, he was not surprised. I agree with you on that.
My point of contention is that "foreknowledge" does not equal "foredetermination".
It's simple enough. What's the hiccup here, except not listening?

God knows all things due to Him already determining the outcomes.... Not causing them directly all of the time, but making them happen as He so wills

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, of course, it was Hezekiah's choice. Hence the responsibility God places on him, and on every man.

Did the Apostle paul believe in Lord Jesus by His own will, or due to the predetermine purpose of God?

 

[George Antonios]

The plans and purposes of God are predestined/ordained by Him, so His foreknowledge is because of Him already setting outcomes!

Sorry brother, but as I've told you before, and many have agreed, you never actually engage what others say, you only repeat your words without incorporating feedback. I cannot therefore engage with you.

 

[George Antonios]

Did the Apostle paul believe in Lord Jesus by His own will, or due to the predetermine purpose of God?

I'd answer, but you don't listen.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'd answer, but you don't listen.

I do, but just try to not assert that Paul chose due to "free will"

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry brother, but as I've told you before, and many have agreed, you never actually engage what others say, you only repeat your words without incorporating feedback. I cannot therefore engage with you.

it seems to be more that those who are dead set against the concepts such as predestination and election have issues with how responses are posted!

 

[George Antonios]

it seems to be more that those who are dead set against the concepts such as predestination and election have issues with how responses are posted!

That's a disingenuous defence. Many non-Calvinists here engage many Calvinists, and we sorely disagree but the majority take into account our words and integrate them into their feedback. You don't. Your replies, no matter what we say, are always a re-iteration of what you "know". You just repeat the mantras. That's not a conversation.

@canadyjd over here was not listening either today, but finally he did, and we were able to go on.

The day you integrate our points into your replies is the day we can resume conversation.

And I believe in predestination and election, they're in the Bible.

 

[percho]

Yes, of course, it was Hezekiah's choice. Hence the responsibility God places on him, and on every man.

We disagree on this, I believe God called Abraham to be, of faith, so also Hezekiah, however I might add, we according to my thoughts reading your posts, usually agree on more than we disagree.

We will all be on the same page bye and bye for God will make sure of that.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[George Antonios]

We disagree on this, I believe God called Abraham to be, of faith, so also Hezekiah,

I agree that God called them unto faith. God calls every man to believe. The problem is most men do not. Sadly.

Amen to the rest.

 

[Van]

This is a perfect example of man assisting God in salvation via the law. Grace not needed

Material false statement

 

[Van]

I quoted your post. I didn’t make up anything.
It is clear you don’t want to discuss what you posted, only continue the false assertion that I “made something up”.
Therefore, this conversation is fruitless.
I’ll leave you to it.
Thanks for the conversation
peace to you

Your inferences concerning my views were mistaken, but thanks for your willingness to cease and desist.

 

[Van]

The only other option would be Open theism, do you hold to that?

You are an open theist, Sir, since according to your copy and paste theology, our sins are not foreordained!!!!

 

[AustinC]

That is why we say that only high-Calvinists are honest/consistent with their system.
They don't suddenly forsake determinism to adopt the softer "permission" for free will once they hit uncomfortable territory.
You know very well that Calvinism's "ordained" = "determined".
God made Adam and Eve sin in that system.

Ordained and determined do not equal "authored" in the sense that God created.
Second, no Calvinist that I know, says that humans do not exercise their will in rebellion against God. Instead, it is expressed that no human will can supercede God's will, nor can human will secure its own salvation so as to "accept" God's grace. Indeed, nowhere does God ever tell anyone that they "need to accept God's gift of salvation." Such teaching is wholely a creation of men who desperately want a share in their own salvation via an imagined cooperation with God.