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Does the Bible teach Original Sin?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Humble Disciple, Aug 2, 2021.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Do you realize that Baptists do not all come out of the Anabaptist line of Menno Simons and other sects?

    Ultimately you are making a Pelagian claim that humans are born perfect and without sin...until they sin.

    Understanding Romans 5:12-19 will help.
    Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Do you fail to understand what God was saying to the exiles living in the canal region of the Tigris and Euphrates River in Babylon? Go study the long running dialogue Ezekiel was having with the Jewish exiles before you go ripping verses out of context to claim a meaning that neither Ezekiel nor God ever intended. It always shocks me how badly free-will proponents butcher the writing of Ezekiel. There is a reason why Rabbi's forbade the teaching of Ezekiel until many years of study had been done. You cannot just rip verses from Ezekiel and claim things out of context. It's biblically unsound and leads to really poor theology.
     
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Ezekiel has nothing to say regarding spiritual , as he main point was that God will judge each persons sins in thnis life, and the one guilty of capital crime will be put to death, and not the one not commiting the crime!
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It is, under federal headship, see Paul and his take on Adam and second Adam Jesus!
     
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    HD, you are very ignorant of church history. Listen to John Gerstner on the Anabaptists.
    "The Anabaptists" from Ligonier Ministries The Anabaptists by John Gerstner

    Also read this article as a primer.
    Baptists and Their Theology – Baptist History and Heritage Society

    It seems you are ignorant of Baptist history and why they are not Anabaptist Mennonites.
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. It is not taught in the Bible. Federal heads-up is taught (in several aspects) but not the idea that men sinned prior to their actual sin. You are confusing Adam as the first man (as an example of his kind to come) with unborn people sinning.
     
  7. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    In the words of Calvinist apologist Cornelius Van Til, "Sin did not take away from man any of the natural powers that God had given him."
    The Defense of the Faith

    This would include our natural ability to choose between accepting or rejecting God's free offer of salvation in the Gospel.

    If we were created in the image and likeness of God, that includes free will if God is a free being.
     
    #87 Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  8. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    No brother, it has everything to do with the spiritual state:

    Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: IN his trespass that he hath trespassed, and IN his sin that he hath sinned, IN them shall he die.

    If a man is IN sin and dies IN sin, he is lost to hell, as confirmed by the matching:

    Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die IN your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die IN your sins.

    That's also how Paul described a lost man:

    Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead IN trespasses and sins;

    That's why I keep saying that salvation without works is only true under grace, not under the law.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, as God sees all who were to be born after him to be born into that likeness of fallen adam!
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Slaves to sin are not free!
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None were ever saved by the Law of the Ot though, and Ezekiel was referring to capital punishment for crimes and sins, not justification!
     
  13. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    As usual, you simply repeat your position without dealing with the reply. Moving on.
     
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    All men are in the likeness of Adam in the flesh. But that does not mean people sinned in Adam before they were born.

    You have a habit of making one claim and then offering support for an entirely different matter.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God pronounced judgement upon Adam, and all who were born in Him would have same curse be upon them, save for Lord Jesus!
    Born with sin natures, spiritually dead, and in estranged state against God!
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. I'm pretty sure Jesus suffered and died.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he took upon Himself the very wrath of the Father due to us as sinners!
     
  18. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    According to the 1689 London Baptist Confession, which was based on the Calvinist Westminster Confession, babies go to hell that are not God's elect:

    This is a horrific teaching, and contrary to what Baptists have traditionally taught.

    If original sin is true, as in inherited guilt rather than an inherited inclination toward sin, then unbaptized babies go to hell, which is contrary to what Baptists have traditionally taught.

    This is why the Catholic church practices infant baptism and formulated the unbiblical doctrine of limbo.

     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your Pelagian tendencies grow stronger young one...
     
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I reject that though, as do see God electing all babies to be saved in Christ due to His grace!
     
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