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Featured Words have Meaning

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Oct 23, 2021.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    News flash. I am NOT a "Liberal", and well versed in Greek grammar, and can tell you IF you will only listen, you are WRONG in your conclusions! Give it up before you make a fool of yourself!
     
    #61 SavedByGrace, Nov 15, 2021
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Dr George Winer was a first-rate Greek GRAMMARIAN and NOT a LEXIOGRAPHER! Do you get the DIFFERENCE.

    grammarian

    lexicographer
     
    #62 SavedByGrace, Nov 15, 2021
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Listen Sir, stop posting false charges, demeaning others. Your behavior is obscene.
    Apparently my quoting the BLB rendering of Thayer's Greek Lexicon you find wanting.
    Your charge that I pretend to know Greek is a material false statement.

    Here are the facts

    The Greek preposition "dia" has the literal positional meaning of passing through something, and the instrumentality meaning of by means of, because of or by reason of. In the Greek construction of "through faith" the word "faith in in the genitive case and according to the LEXICON I quoted, "dia" thus conveys the meaning of "by means of" or "because of."

    To spell it out for the deniers of the obvious, we are saved by grace through faith, with the meaning that we are saved because God credited our faith as righteousness. Now rather than running from this obvious truth, you choose to hurl off topic false charges non-stop. .
     
    #63 Van, Nov 15, 2021
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am sorry, as a Lexicon (Thayer's) can reference a Grammar. No need to deny the obvious.
     
    #64 Van, Nov 15, 2021
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    well, in # 19, YOU said that the Greek preposition διά, can be used in the "dative"? In matter of fact, it is only used in the "genitive" or "accusative".

    Your OWN words show you to be FAKE in your "knowledge" of actual Greek grammar! :eek:
     
    #65 SavedByGrace, Nov 15, 2021
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  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    WHY would anyone who wants to know GRAMMAR, consult with a LEXICON???
     
    #66 SavedByGrace, Nov 15, 2021
  7. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Pot, kettle, . . . never mind.

    What you've posted here are not facts. What you've posted here are at best half-truths and at worst full error.

    Again.... the meaning of δια changes depending on whether it's coupled with a genitive or an accusative. Even so, there is a range of meaning for each situation. There are several options for each case. Δια is irreducible to the level you're trying to take it to; it doesn't simply bear a lexical meaning. To determine the meaning of δια requires the examination of the grammar, usage, and context in each case.

    You're playing with things you simply do not understand.

    The Archangel
     
    #67 The Archangel, Nov 15, 2021
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  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Someone trying to explain Greek to a Greek professor. Boy, that’s rich. That’d be like me being in a plane at 35,000 feet trying to show the pilots how to fly the plane. Wonder how that’d work out? #CrashAndBurn
     
    #68 SovereignGrace, Nov 16, 2021
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    well, Van has called out the likes of yourself and JoJ, but think that his views really are all bluster, no substance!
     
    #69 Yeshua1, Nov 16, 2021
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Supreme Irony is when any question his credentials to make judgements on bible translations, the evidence for his credibility is "taint so"
     
    #70 Yeshua1, Nov 16, 2021
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I made a mistake and owned up to it. Now your pitiful attempt to disparage me shows you for what you are.
     
    #71 Van, Nov 16, 2021
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Idiotic response from the south side of the bell curve...
     
    #72 Van, Nov 16, 2021
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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What an incredulity ridiculous response!! Through faith always deals with the noun faith in the genitive case. Never in the accusative, so all this baloney about the accusative case demonstrates either ignorance of deceit. Go figure.
     
    #73 Van, Nov 16, 2021
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Liberals attack truth by redefining the meaning of words. Many times in scripture the statement is made that salvation is "through faith." Often the Greek preposition "dia" which means "by means of" or "by reason of" when used to indicate instrumentality, is nullified by liberal rather than literal interpretation.

    If individuals were chosen for salvation unconditionally, then salvation would not be "through faith."

    Thus when you see "through faith" (or by faith) the liberals claim the meaning is by reason of the gifted and instilled faith due to election before creation via irresistible grace.

    However that gross addition to scripture, based purely on the speculation of people, is not how scripture actually reads.

    And this repeated rewriting of scripture violates at least two Baptist distinctives, in that the view does not adhere to a literal interpretation, and that individual soul liberty to believe or not in Christ is denied.

    Here are some of the verses that liberals rewrite via interpretation:
    Romans 3:25
    Galatians 3:14
    Galatians 3:26
    Ephesians 2:8
    Ephesians 3:12
    Colossians 2:12
    2 Timothy 3:15

    In these verses the preposition (dia) is used to refer to the means or instrument by which the action is effected, thus in Romans 3:25, Christ is displayed as the means of reconciliation through faith. If a person's faith is not credited by God as righteousness, God will not utilize Christ as the means of their reconciliation. So simple a child can understand it.
     
    #74 Van, Nov 16, 2021
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Galatians 3:14 (NASB)
    in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

    If we unpack this verse:
    1) Only when placed into Christ do Gentiles (and Jews) receive the promised indwelling of the Spirit.
    2) Only when God credits their faith as righteousness does God place individuals into Christ.

    Thus, once again, through faith indicates our faith if credited by God, provides entry into the blessings of salvation.

    Words have meaning so pay no attention to liberals who redefine words to rewrite the gospel.
     
    #75 Van, Nov 16, 2021
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I see that this entry where you "admit" that you misused the Greek grammar, has been deleted, or have I missed it? Can you find it?
     
    #76 SavedByGrace, Nov 16, 2021
  17. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    I think you meant to say "What an incredibly ridiculous response." "Incredulity" is not the right word for this intended insult. And, since you started a thread entitled "Words have meaning," you should certainly know how to use them properly.

    There are 668 occurrences of δια in the New Testament. δια plus πίστις (genitive singular) occurs 64 times. That all of them mean exactly the same thing is a bridge too far; that you think they all mean the same thing is laughable. Louw and Nida show what δια plus the genitive can mean. This is what we call "range of meaning." δια has a much larger range than you are allowing for.

    a by (agent)
    b by (instrument)
    c through (means)
    d on behalf of (benefaction)
    e because of (reason participant)
    f on account of (reason)
    g through (extension)
    h along (extension)
    i during (time)
    j throughout (time)

    Source: Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 57.
    ​
    You can't simply make the text say or mean what you want it to mean and then attempt to slander everyone who disagrees with you.

    The Archangel
     
    #77 The Archangel, Nov 18, 2021
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  18. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Wait!!

    did Van delete his earlier posts in this thread?

    or was it another thread that I am confusing?
     
    #78 Marooncat79, Nov 18, 2021
  19. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Never mind

    sorry I had Van on block

    I just unblocked him though

    continue on
     
    #79 Marooncat79, Nov 18, 2021
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You are assuming Van knows the difference?
     
    #80 Yeshua1, Nov 19, 2021
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