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Words have Meaning
- Thread starter Van
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Dr George Winer was a first-rate Greek GRAMMARIAN and NOT a LEXIOGRAPHER! Do you get the DIFFERENCE.
grammarian
lexicographer
Listen Sir, stop posting false charges, demeaning others. Your behavior is obscene.dude, how many times do I need to repeat this? it is a GRAMMAR that you need, and NOT a LEXICON!
Stop pretending to know Greek, when you have proven by your own words, that you do NOT!
Apparently my quoting the BLB rendering of Thayer's Greek Lexicon you find wanting.
Your charge that I pretend to know Greek is a material false statement.
Here are the facts
The Greek preposition "dia" has the literal positional meaning of passing through something, and the instrumentality meaning of by means of, because of or by reason of. In the Greek construction of "through faith" the word "faith in in the genitive case and according to the LEXICON I quoted, "dia" thus conveys the meaning of "by means of" or "because of."
To spell it out for the deniers of the obvious, we are saved by grace through faith, with the meaning that we are saved because God credited our faith as righteousness. Now rather than running from this obvious truth, you choose to hurl off topic false charges non-stop. .
I am sorry, as a Lexicon (Thayer's) can reference a Grammar. No need to deny the obvious.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Pot, kettle, . . . never mind.
What you've posted here are not facts. What you've posted here are at best half-truths and at worst full error.
Again.... the meaning of δια changes depending on whether it's coupled with a genitive or an accusative. Even so, there is a range of meaning for each situation. There are several options for each case. Δια is irreducible to the level you're trying to take it to; it doesn't simply bear a lexical meaning. To determine the meaning of δια requires the examination of the grammar, usage, and context in each case.
You're playing with things you simply do not understand.
The Archangel
Someone trying to explain Greek to a Greek professor. Boy, that’s rich. That’d be like me being in a plane at 35,000 feet trying to show the pilots how to fly the plane. Wonder how that’d work out? #CrashAndBurn
well, Van has called out the likes of yourself and JoJ, but think that his views really are all bluster, no substance!
Supreme Irony is when any question his credentials to make judgements on bible translations, the evidence for his credibility is "taint so"
I made a mistake and owned up to it. Now your pitiful attempt to disparage me shows you for what you are.well, in # 19, YOU said that the Greek preposition διά, can be used in the "dative"? In matter of fact, it is only used in the "genitive" or "accusative".
Your OWN words show you to be FAKE in your "knowledge" of actual Greek grammar!
Idiotic response from the south side of the bell curve...
What an incredulity ridiculous response!! Through faith always deals with the noun faith in the genitive case. Never in the accusative, so all this baloney about the accusative case demonstrates either ignorance of deceit. Go figure.
Liberals attack truth by redefining the meaning of words. Many times in scripture the statement is made that salvation is "through faith." Often the Greek preposition "dia" which means "by means of" or "by reason of" when used to indicate instrumentality, is nullified by liberal rather than literal interpretation.
If individuals were chosen for salvation unconditionally, then salvation would not be "through faith."
Thus when you see "through faith" (or by faith) the liberals claim the meaning is by reason of the gifted and instilled faith due to election before creation via irresistible grace.
However that gross addition to scripture, based purely on the speculation of people, is not how scripture actually reads.
And this repeated rewriting of scripture violates at least two Baptist distinctives, in that the view does not adhere to a literal interpretation, and that individual soul liberty to believe or not in Christ is denied.
Here are some of the verses that liberals rewrite via interpretation:
Romans 3:25
Galatians 3:14
Galatians 3:26
Ephesians 2:8
Ephesians 3:12
Colossians 2:12
2 Timothy 3:15
In these verses the preposition (dia) is used to refer to the means or instrument by which the action is effected, thus in Romans 3:25, Christ is displayed as the means of reconciliation through faith. If a person's faith is not credited by God as righteousness, God will not utilize Christ as the means of their reconciliation. So simple a child can understand it.
If individuals were chosen for salvation unconditionally, then salvation would not be "through faith."
Thus when you see "through faith" (or by faith) the liberals claim the meaning is by reason of the gifted and instilled faith due to election before creation via irresistible grace.
However that gross addition to scripture, based purely on the speculation of people, is not how scripture actually reads.
And this repeated rewriting of scripture violates at least two Baptist distinctives, in that the view does not adhere to a literal interpretation, and that individual soul liberty to believe or not in Christ is denied.
Here are some of the verses that liberals rewrite via interpretation:
Romans 3:25
Galatians 3:14
Galatians 3:26
Ephesians 2:8
Ephesians 3:12
Colossians 2:12
2 Timothy 3:15
In these verses the preposition (dia) is used to refer to the means or instrument by which the action is effected, thus in Romans 3:25, Christ is displayed as the means of reconciliation through faith. If a person's faith is not credited by God as righteousness, God will not utilize Christ as the means of their reconciliation. So simple a child can understand it.
Galatians 3:14 (NASB)
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
If we unpack this verse:
1) Only when placed into Christ do Gentiles (and Jews) receive the promised indwelling of the Spirit.
2) Only when God credits their faith as righteousness does God place individuals into Christ.
Thus, once again, through faith indicates our faith if credited by God, provides entry into the blessings of salvation.
Words have meaning so pay no attention to liberals who redefine words to rewrite the gospel.
in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
If we unpack this verse:
1) Only when placed into Christ do Gentiles (and Jews) receive the promised indwelling of the Spirit.
2) Only when God credits their faith as righteousness does God place individuals into Christ.
Thus, once again, through faith indicates our faith if credited by God, provides entry into the blessings of salvation.
Words have meaning so pay no attention to liberals who redefine words to rewrite the gospel.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
I think you meant to say "What an incredibly ridiculous response." "Incredulity" is not the right word for this intended insult. And, since you started a thread entitled "Words have meaning," you should certainly know how to use them properly.
There are 668 occurrences of δια in the New Testament. δια plus πίστις (genitive singular) occurs 64 times. That all of them mean exactly the same thing is a bridge too far; that you think they all mean the same thing is laughable. Louw and Nida show what δια plus the genitive can mean. This is what we call "range of meaning." δια has a much larger range than you are allowing for.
a by (agent)
b by (instrument)
c through (means)
d on behalf of (benefaction)
e because of (reason participant)
f on account of (reason)
g through (extension)
h along (extension)
i during (time)
j throughout (time)
Source: Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 57.
The Archangel
Wait!!
did Van delete his earlier posts in this thread?
or was it another thread that I am confusing?
did Van delete his earlier posts in this thread?
or was it another thread that I am confusing?
Never mind
sorry I had Van on block
I just unblocked him though
continue on
sorry I had Van on block
I just unblocked him though
continue on
You are assuming Van knows the difference?
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