was not found in the original text, as was added to by Eramus, who could not find it until his third Greek edition, and was taken in from a Latin scribal source!
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Does the Word of God evidence the Trinity or is the Godhead simply reasoned out from Scripture?
- Thread starter JonC
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God the Son is fully Yahweh
he refuses to see what the scriptures clearly teach to us!
It doesn't prove the Holy Spirit is God.
There actually are no quick fixes.
This is a letter I wrote in response to a letter sent to a large number of people in my town.
Dear Mark,
Thank you for your letter which I received yesterday. I am always interested to discuss the word of God and will be very happy to meet with you at some point.
However, I noticed that the only verse from the Bible that you mentioned, you misquoted. Romans 10:13 says, “Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” The Greek word which you have translated as ‘Jehovah’ is kurios, which means ‘Lord.’ It is true, of course, that the Apostle Paul is quoting from Joel 2:32 which uses the Hebrew term YHWH, which is often translated as ‘Jehovah’ or, more accurately as ‘Yahweh,’ but neither the Lord Jesus Christ nor any of the divinely-inspired writers of the New Testament ever use that word to describe God. Rather they use the words theos, ‘God,’ kupios, ‘Lord,’ or pater, ‘Father,’ which is the name by which Christians are instructed to address Him (Matthew 6:9).
So to whom is Paul referring in Romans 10:13? Well, we need only go back four verses to find the answer. Romans 10:9. ‘That if you confess with your mouth the Lord (Gk. kurios) Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.’ Now what does it mean to call upon the name of the Lord, if not to confess Him with one’s mouth? So we are left with the inevitable conclusion that the Lord Jesus is indeed ‘Jehovah’!
If this were the only text that declares this fact, then it might be possible to pour cold water on it in some way, but in fact there are at least several dozen other places where the Lord Jesus is clearly set forth as God. Bearing in mind Isaiah 42:8, in which God declares, “I am ‘Jehovah’ – that is My name: and My glory I will not give to another,” let us look at just a few parallel texts and see what we find;
Psalm 90:2. ‘From everlasting to everlasting, You are God.’
Micah 5:2. ‘Whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.’
[Be aware that the Hebrew word for ‘everlasting’ in Psalm 90 is the same as the one in Micah 5]
Psalm 93:2. ‘Your throne is established of old; You are from everlasting.’
Hebrews 1:8. ‘Unto the Son, He says, “Your throne, O God, is for ever and ever.”’
Isaiah 44:6. “I am the first and the last; and beside Me there is no God.”
Revelation 1:17-18. “I am the first and the last: I am He who lives and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.”
Jeremiah 23:24. ‘“Do I not fill heaven and earth?” Says Jehovah.’
Ephesians 4:10. ‘He who descended is also the one who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all in all.’
Deuteronomy 31:8. “And Jehovah, He is the one who goes before you. He will be with you.
Matthew 28:20. “And lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Malachi 3:6. “I am Jehovah, I do not change.”
Hebrews 13:8. ‘Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever.’
Proverbs 16:4. ‘Jehovah has made all things for Himself.’
Colossians 1:16. ‘For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth….. All things were created through Him and for Him’
Finally, bearing in mind Isaiah 42:8, consider:
Revelation 4:11. ‘You are worthy, O Lord, to receive honour and glory and power.’
Revelation 5:12. ‘Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and blessing.’
Revelation 5:13. ‘Blessing and honour and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, and (or possibly ‘even’ cf. Rev. 5:6) to the Lamb, forever and ever.’
God will not share His glory with another, but He will share it with the Lord Jesus Christ. Think about it.
Most of these examples are taken from The Trinity by E.H. Bickersteth. It is possible to do the same with parallel references for 'Jehovah' and the Holy Spirit (for example, Psalms 136:1-4 with Romans 15:19 or Matthew 4:7 and Acts of the Apostles 5:9). The point is that any one example might be argued away, but sheer weight of numbers may have the power to convince. I never heard any more from 'Mark' but God willing, he read the letter and may have been convicted by it.
37818
Well-Known Member
Jesus explains this in John 13:16, ". . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. . . ." Jesus was sent, John 17:3, John 1:10.
Yes indeed, but I am trying to show the impossibility of finding a single text that will convince any Unitarian of the Trinity.
Well, we both know that only God can crush the rebellious serpents head in anyone.
But, I suppose the clearest evidence of the Trinity is found at Jesus baptism.
Matthew 3:16-17
And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
God had Erasmus restore what is part of the Epistle of John. I have shown that the Greek grammar clearly says so
Who?
James!
You say that you are a Baptist -
and the Trinity is one of our basic doctrines
So why are you a Baptist -if you disagree with one of the major doctrines??
Your local church states that you accept the BF&M, 2000
From the BF&M
"...The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being."
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You have showed me passages and then told me what you believe they teach. You have said the Trinity is the same way.
But you are wrong. There are actual passages affirming the Trinity in the text of Scripture. There are none for your theories.
When we get into "natures" and "persons" then we do approach reasoning out of Scripture. Nobody understands the Trinity because such is beyond human understanding.
I remember "it is like an onion"...then "an apple".
But sometimes we get caught up in things that are not at all the point.
The trinity show up at the announcement to the angel of the matter of conception.
It was the work of the trinity (the fullness of the God) in the work of creating the human Christ. (Luke 1)
It was the work of the trinity (the fullness of the God) in the work of creating the human Christ. (Luke 1)
26In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
34“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37For no word from God will ever fail.”
38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
34“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37For no word from God will ever fail.”
38“I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.
Could the Word have been made flesh as the Son of God, the Son of Man without the creation of man in the image of his creator and the woman having been taken from the man with the life thereof of the flesh in the blood thereof?
Was that, "The Plan," before the foundation of the world. The Holy, Spirit the God bringing forth through woman, taken from the man created in the image of God, the Son of God, the Word made flesh, the one Jesus called Father in John 4:23,24?
I will be who I will be ----- I am that I am
Thoughts of my mind to ponder.
Who was the first eligible virgin for a Holy son?
What could have adulterated that Holiness resulting in the need of redemption? -- and did not know her till she brought forth her son -- the first-born, and he called his name Jesus. Matt 1:25 What could have caused of a name change?
Would that, "scenario," have resulted in the following for all humanity sans one conceived of a virgin and brought forth by the virgin?
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalms 51:5
What is man?
Who was the promise of the Holy Spirit for and was it to be extended to others?
John 7:39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 2:32,33 'This Jesus did God raise up, (?The resurrection?) of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;
Again, What is man?
What does Satan have to do with any of this?
and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law, that those under law he may redeem, that the adoption of sons we may receive;
Sorry if none can see it but I believe this is relative to the OP and also to substitution.
Acts 15:18 'Known from the ages to God are all His works;
Was that, "The Plan," before the foundation of the world. The Holy, Spirit the God bringing forth through woman, taken from the man created in the image of God, the Son of God, the Word made flesh, the one Jesus called Father in John 4:23,24?
I will be who I will be ----- I am that I am
Thoughts of my mind to ponder.
Who was the first eligible virgin for a Holy son?
What could have adulterated that Holiness resulting in the need of redemption? -- and did not know her till she brought forth her son -- the first-born, and he called his name Jesus. Matt 1:25 What could have caused of a name change?
Would that, "scenario," have resulted in the following for all humanity sans one conceived of a virgin and brought forth by the virgin?
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalms 51:5
What is man?
Who was the promise of the Holy Spirit for and was it to be extended to others?
John 7:39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Acts 2:32,33 'This Jesus did God raise up, (?The resurrection?) of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;
Again, What is man?
What does Satan have to do with any of this?
and when the fulness of time did come, God sent forth His Son, come of a woman, come under law, that those under law he may redeem, that the adoption of sons we may receive;
Sorry if none can see it but I believe this is relative to the OP and also to substitution.
Acts 15:18 'Known from the ages to God are all His works;
37818
Well-Known Member
What Scripture says that? Or from what Scripture from which that can be directly shown and or proven?
The creater of the JW’s
Oh, Ok.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Be gentle, for we know not the depth of understanding in Scriptural matters this new poster brings.RANK HERESY
Some come to the BB without understanding and need to be patiently taught.
37818
Well-Known Member
First it must be agreed that there is only one God. Second, the Unitarian must be convened that the man identified as Jesus God's Christ is only way to God. That there abosoluty no other way to God. Also all appearances of God is Jesus who is God's Christ.
John 14:6, 1 Timothy 2:5.
John 1:18, John 12:41, Isaiah 6:1-8.
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