1 John 2:2

[Brightfame52]

Context matters BF and that is the big blind spot you have. You refuse to consider context as it shows that your translation does not fit. But you are not the first and I am sure you will not be the last persons to ignore what the bible says so that you can hold to your pet theology.

Sure it matters and I looked up the word. I showed you what it means, God is the Savior of all who believe, that is emphasized.

 

[Silverhair]

Sure it matters and I looked up the word. I showed you what it means, God is the Savior of all who believe, that is emphasized.

BF you do not disappoint. You continue to read into scripture what you want to find. That is called eisegesis and it leads to numerous fallacies which you seem content to live with.

Not questioning that He is the savior of those that believe, but He is also the only savior available for all men. Those that freely trust in Him will be saved, those that reject Him will be lost. Do you have a problem with what the bible says?

 

[Brightfame52]

BF I know you looked up the word, so did I. But you are ignoring the overall context of the bible and the immediate context of the verses where it is used. I understand that you need to support your theological position but when you do that at the expense of biblical accuracy then it is not the bible you are trusting but rather yourself.

BF just because a Greek word can be translated that way does not mean it should be translated that way. That is why context is so important. But you will believe what you want to believe.

Okay, so I studied the word, years ago, decades even, the word in actuality emphasizes particular atonement. Paul suffered reproach because he taught that salvation was for gentiles as well as jews, jews persecuted him.. Paul wouldn't suffer reproach by saying God wants to save all men without exception, Paul taught also that Salvation was in particular for Gods elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure[reproach. Suffering] all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Jesus Christ is the Saviour of Gods elect !

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you do not disappoint. You continue to read into scripture what you want to find. That is called eisegesis and it leads to numerous fallacies which you seem content to live with.

Not questioning that He is the savior of those that believe, but He is also the only savior available for all men. Those that freely trust in Him will be saved, those that reject Him will be lost. Do you have a problem with what the bible says?

The emphasis is that He is the Savior of them that believe. If men dont believe, its because they were not His Sheep for whom He died Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

but He is also the only savior available for all men.

This is a satanic statement, no where in scripture, a savior available, that's blasphemy !

 

[Silverhair]

Okay, so I studied the word, years ago, decades even, the word in actuality emphasizes particular atonement. Paul suffered reproach because he taught that salvation was for gentiles as well as jews, jews persecuted him.. Paul wouldn't suffer reproach by saying God wants to save all men without exception, Paul taught also that Salvation was in particular for Gods elect 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure[reproach. Suffering] all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Jesus Christ is the Saviour of Gods elect !

Context BF context.

The context shows that your understanding of that verse is in error.

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel,
2Ti 2:9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained.
2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him.
2Ti 2:12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.
2Ti 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

Paul did indeed endure much for the sake of the believers so as to be an example for them.
Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church,...

Paul is warning those that have trusted in Christ not to drift away to the point of denial of Christ as it is only those that trust in Christ Jesus to the end that will be saved.

The text does NOT say that God will not deny the unfaithful person, it says that God will not deny the truth of His Word. If a person is unfaithful to God, then He will deny Him access to heaven. God has set down rules for Christian behavior, and if you do not follow those rules, while there is grace for those who are in Christ, by breaking the rules you cease to remain in Christ, hence no more grace. God will deny such a person because he is walking in willful disobedience...not just falling into sin every now and then, but practicing sinful behavior.

 

[Silverhair]

The emphasis is that He is the Savior of them that believe. If men dont believe, its because they were not His Sheep for whom He died Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

BF I have mentioned this to you before, you have to start looking at the context. Pulling verses out of context in the vain hope that they will support your view is a sure way to have an errant theology.

Read John 10:24-38 if you want to understand what your posted verses mean.

But for their pride, and prejudice, and false notions of the Messiah, and from a determination not to believe, they would have learned from His declarations and works that He was the Christ.

Jesus encouraged those whom He declared were not His sheep/followers to consider the evidence of His miracles in order to believe in Him and become His sheep/followers. John 10:37-38

So the question is: for whom did Christ die?

Heb 2:9 ...He might taste death for everyone.
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the propitiation for ...the whole world.
1Ti 4:10 ... who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, ...
Rom 5:6 ... Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 ...while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The qualifier for who is saved is whether they believe or not.

Eph 1:13 in whom you also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,

Rom 1:16 for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing,...

This is a satanic statement, no where in scripture, a savior available, that's blasphemy !

So the question is: for whom did Christ die?

Heb 2:9 ...He might taste death for everyone.
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the propitiation for ...the whole world.
1Ti 4:10 ... who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, ...
Rom 5:6 ... Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 ...while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The qualifier for who is saved is whether they believe or not.

Eph 1:13 in whom you also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,

Rom 1:16 for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing,...

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Not satanic just scripture. Salvation is available to all that will believe.

 

[Brightfame52]

Context BF context.

The context shows that your understanding of that verse is in error.

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel,
2Ti 2:9 for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained.
2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him.
2Ti 2:12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.
2Ti 2:13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

Paul did indeed endure much for the sake of the believers so as to be an example for them.
Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church,...

Paul is warning those that have trusted in Christ not to drift away to the point of denial of Christ as it is only those that trust in Christ Jesus to the end that will be saved.

The text does NOT say that God will not deny the unfaithful person, it says that God will not deny the truth of His Word. If a person is unfaithful to God, then He will deny Him access to heaven. God has set down rules for Christian behavior, and if you do not follow those rules, while there is grace for those who are in Christ, by breaking the rules you cease to remain in Christ, hence no more grace. God will deny such a person because he is walking in willful disobedience...not just falling into sin every now and then, but practicing sinful behavior.

Already explained !

 

[Brightfame52]

BF I have mentioned this to you before, you have to start looking at the context. Pulling verses out of context in the vain hope that they will support your view is a sure way to have an errant theology.

Read John 10:24-38 if you want to understand what your posted verses mean.

But for their pride, and prejudice, and false notions of the Messiah, and from a determination not to believe, they would have learned from His declarations and works that He was the Christ.

Jesus encouraged those whom He declared were not His sheep/followers to consider the evidence of His miracles in order to believe in Him and become His sheep/followers. John 10:37-38

So the question is: for whom did Christ die?

Heb 2:9 ...He might taste death for everyone.
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the propitiation for ...the whole world.
1Ti 4:10 ... who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, ...
Rom 5:6 ... Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 ...while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The qualifier for who is saved is whether they believe or not.

Eph 1:13 in whom you also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,

Rom 1:16 for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing,...



So the question is: for whom did Christ die?

Heb 2:9 ...He might taste death for everyone.
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the propitiation for ...the whole world.
1Ti 4:10 ... who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, ...
Rom 5:6 ... Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:8 ...while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The qualifier for who is saved is whether they believe or not.

Eph 1:13 in whom you also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise,

Rom 1:16 for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing,...

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Not satanic just scripture. Salvation is available to all that will believe.

Already explained [snip]:

but He is also the only savior available for all men.

 

[Silverhair]

Already explained !

Saying you disagree is not explaining anything it is just your opinion. Show me from scripture that your view is correct. You can not, so you will just continue to say you disagree.

 

[Silverhair]

Already explained and pointed out the blasphemous statement:

Not a blasphemous statement when it agrees with the bible. It just does not agree with your errant theology.

 

[Brightfame52]

Saying you disagree is not explaining anything it is just your opinion. Show me from scripture that your view is correct. You can not, so you will just continue to say you disagree.

Already explained !

 

[Brightfame52]

Not a blasphemous statement when it agrees with the bible. It just does not agree with your errant theology.

Already explained [snip]:

but He is also the only savior available for all men.

 

[Silverhair]

Already explained !

Well I see that it is impossible to have an adult discussion with you in regard to this subject. You continue to ignore scripture in favor of your errant theology.

When the bible disagrees with your view then you should consider changing your view.

 

[Brightfame52]

Well I see that it is impossible to have an adult discussion with you in regard to this subject. You continue to ignore scripture in favor of your errant theology.

When the bible disagrees with your view then you should consider changing your view.

Already explained

 

[37818]

1 Timothy 4:9-10, ". . . This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. . . ."

The emphasis is that He is the Savior of them that believe. If men dont believe, its because they were not His Sheep for whom He died Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you

Not at issue. In that 1 John 2:2, the, ". . . whole world . . . ." is understood to refer to all.

1 Timothy 2:3-6, ". . . of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . ."

1 John 5:9-13, ". . . If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. . . ."

 

[Alan Gross]

1 Timothy 2:3-6, ". . . of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . ."

The first two verses of I Timothy 2 before this spells out exactly who the 'all' is referring to.

1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2 For kings, and for all that are in authority

1 Timothy 4:9-10, ". . . This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. . . ."

Who is the Saviour of all men;
in a providential way, giving them being and breath, upholding them in their beings, preserving their lives, and indulging them with the blessings and mercies of life; for that he is the Saviour of all men, with a spiritual and everlasting salvation, is not true in fact.

Specially of those that believe;
whom though he saves with an eternal salvation; yet not of this, but of a temporal salvation, are the words to be understood: or as there is a general providence, which attends all mankind, there is a special one which relates to the elect of God;

. In that 1 John 2:2, the, ". . . whole world . . . ." is understood to refer to all.

I believe 'the whole world' is to be understood by that it often referred to, in the Bible, and writings of that time, 'the whole Gentiles world'.

1 John 5:9-13, ". . . If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. . .

Now we know what is so important about I John 5:7, besides it's teaching on the Trinity, it is concerning the Trinity bearing record and testifying as a Threefold Divine witness that Jesus is the Son "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

 

[Silverhair]

Already explained

I shown you that your explanation does not comport with the bible so in reality it is not an explanation but just your opinion.

 

[37818]

Now we know what is so important about I John 5:7, besides it's teaching on the Trinity, it is concerning the Trinity bearing record and testifying as a Threefold Divine witness that Jesus is the Son . . . .

Irrelevant to this thead.

 

[Silverhair]

Did Christ’s death make atonement for anyone in hell?

no, if it had, then their sin would be covered by the blood of Chris - irrespective of faith in Christ hence universalism.

if Christ truly died for all, then all are saved since the atonement actually covered their sin

You gave us your opinion but do you have clear scripture to support your view?

 

[Brightfame52]

1 Timothy 4:9-10, ". . . This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. . . ."

Not at issue. In that 1 John 2:2, the, ". . . whole world . . . ." is understood to refer to all.

1 Timothy 2:3-6, ". . . of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, . . ."

1 John 5:9-13, ". . . If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. . . ."

Already explained