Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Already explained
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1 John 2:2
- Thread starter Piper
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Jesus said He came to die for His sheep.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Correct and everyone is one of His Sheep Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
37818
Well-Known Member
2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ."
Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."
Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You can not even defend your theological position so your bleat out the same comment all the time "Already explained".
They are called “false prophets”
man’s they “crept in”
man’s they “crept in”
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Joh_1:29 who takes away the sin of the world
1Jn_2:2 propitiation for the whole world
1Ti_4:10 savior of all men
1Ti_2:5-6 gave Himself a ransom for all
Rom_5:6, for the ungodly
Rom_5:8 sinners, Christ died for us
Rom_6:10 He died to sin, once for all
Eph 5:25 the church
Gal_2:20 gave Himself for me. {Paul / me}
Heb_10:10 Jesus Christ once for all
2Pe_2:1 false teachers
Christ Jesus came to die for all so that all could be saved. Those that freely trust in the Son will be saved those that reject Him will be lost.
Joh_3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So would you agree that they were ungodly sinners? Sure seem that way to me.
...false prophets ...there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, 2Pe 2:1
But even then they could have been saved if they had repented and trusted in Christ Jesus. Their sin debt was covered {...the Lord who bought them 2Pe 2:1} and all they had to do was accept the gift of God, salvation.
Well what does the bible tells us about Christ and ungodly sinners?
Rom 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
What does the bible tell us about God attitude toward His creation.
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God does not restrict anyone from coming to Him so why do you? That is why Paul was inspired to write:
Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Yes they are and they did, but what point are you trying to make? The text also tells us that Christ bought them.
37818
Well-Known Member
And were we not all before we believed? The one who bought them in 2 Peter 2:1 is also identified as the Lord Jesus Christ in Jude 1:4. And as Creator in Acts 4:24, ". . . Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: . . ."
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So if you understand it to mean that Christ bought them with His Blood, and they perish in their sins anyway, then you dont believe that Christs blood in and of itself saves a person from their sins. Correct ?
37818
Well-Known Member
Your twisted understanding. What single passage of Scripture are you claiming teaches what are claiming here?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Actually the text itself proves that point.
2Pe 2:1 ...even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
They rejected Christ Jesus. The answer to your question is right there in the text if you will just trust scripture.
1Co_15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co_15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
1Co_15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
1Co_15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
We are saved by trust in the risen Christ. His blood covers sins but does not save anyone. If the shed blood of Christ saved then we would have universal salvation as the bible is clear that He is the propitiation for the whole world. {1John 2:2}
And another point it is God that saves, and He saves those that trust in the risen Christ. {Ephesians 1:13}
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Its simple understanding. If you believe Christ died for a persons sins, redeemed them by His Blood, and yet that person ends up in hell for their sins in unbelief, duh You dont believe Christs redemptive death for a person in and of itself saves.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So if you understand it to mean that Christ bought them with His Blood, and they perish in their sins anyway, then you dont believe that Christs blood in and of itself saves a person from their sins. Correct ?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF since you claim His death saves then you must have clear contextual scripture to back up your claim. The bible says it is trust in the risen Christ, do you disagree with that?
His death saved no one but it made salvation available to all.
37818
Well-Known Member
Your interpertation versus no cited word of God. I believe Romans 5:8, ". . . But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. . . ."
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Asked and answered but you just do not like the answer. {post # 74 & 77}
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
It seems like you can go back and forth forever on this. A 5 point Calvinist who believes in particular atonement believes that the atonement really did something for the elect, period. But they are Calvinists and deterministic enough to know that for sure, those elect people will believe, and indeed they must believe. Faith is a conditions in the sense that without it they will not be saved. (But the elect will believe.) The certainty of God's decree does not change the fact that a condition still must be met.
Some Calvinists go so far as to say that the fact that Jesus died for certain people means that they are saved even if they don't believe, or, if they don't go that far they at least believe that when they come to faith, all they were really doing was to realize that they indeed had been saved already. But all Calvinists don't believe that.
Some believe that Christ died potentially for everyone and his death can save anyone who believes. And yet still the Holy Spirit sovereignly calls who He wills. In that group, some believe the call is resistible. There is a wide range of belief as to how this "call" works. Is it resistible? Or is it overwhelming or just a persuasion. Some believe everyone gets this type of grace and some believe God is sovereign as to when and how this comes. Some believe men are left with enough ability to reach out and receive the salvation that is offered with only the Word and the knowledge of the gospel being needed.
I don't think any of the above are guilty of a false gospel.
Some Calvinists go so far as to say that the fact that Jesus died for certain people means that they are saved even if they don't believe, or, if they don't go that far they at least believe that when they come to faith, all they were really doing was to realize that they indeed had been saved already. But all Calvinists don't believe that.
Some believe that Christ died potentially for everyone and his death can save anyone who believes. And yet still the Holy Spirit sovereignly calls who He wills. In that group, some believe the call is resistible. There is a wide range of belief as to how this "call" works. Is it resistible? Or is it overwhelming or just a persuasion. Some believe everyone gets this type of grace and some believe God is sovereign as to when and how this comes. Some believe men are left with enough ability to reach out and receive the salvation that is offered with only the Word and the knowledge of the gospel being needed.
I don't think any of the above are guilty of a false gospel.
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