Supralapasarian "Hyper-Calvinism" Defended

[KenH]

Jesus Himself says that He Died for Judas!

Christ saying that is similar to when, nowadays, the Lord's Supper is observed and the words of Christ are read concerning the Lord's Supper. The words are said to everyone in attendance and those who partake may not necessarily be truly believers.

Jesus washed the feet of Judas, as well as of the other eleven apostles, which, on the surface, would indicate that Judas was saved (John 13:8), but Jesus went on to say, "He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all", (John 13:10) indicating that Judas was not saved.

Thus, there is no reason to think that the "you" in Luke 22:19-20 means every person who ever lived or ever will live, especially since Jesus said that He gave His life for the sheep (John 10:15). Jesus did not say that He gave His life for the goats. Goats are always goats and do not become sheep. Sheep are always sheep and do not become goats.

 

[KenH]

However it is very clear that Jesus Christ Died for him!

Then it sounds like you are saying that God desired something and failed to obtain it - in this case, the salvation of Judas.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Then it sounds like you are saying that God desired something and failed to obtain it - in this case, the salvation of Judas.

Your humanistic logic is very much flawed!

You believe in an unconditional salvation, but the Bible actually teaches salvation is very much CONDITIONAL

 

[KenH]

Your humanistic logic is very much flawed!

You believe in an unconditional salvation, but the Bible actually teaches salvation is very much CONDITIONAL

I am thankful that the Bible teaches that Christ perfectly fulfilled ALL of the conditions for my salvation, because there is no way that I could fulfill any condition perfectly.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I am perfect only in Christ and His righteousness, as I have no righteousness of my own.

Isaiah 64:6 All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

 

[tyndale1946]

Then it sounds like you are saying that God desired something and failed to obtain it - in this case, the salvation of Judas.

All I know is this is from the OT

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

An this is from the NT

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Brother Glen

 

[SavedByGrace]

I am thankful that the Bible teaches that Christ perfectly fulfilled ALL of the conditions for my salvation, because there is no way that I could fulfill any condition perfectly.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I am perfect only in Christ and His righteousness, as I have no righteousness of my own.

Isaiah 64:6 All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.

The Bible is very clear, that for ANY sinner who wants to get to heaven, they FIRST must REPENT of their sins, and BELIEVE in Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord. Period. There can be NO salvation without this! Anything else is a FALSE, human "gospel"

 

[SavedByGrace]

All I know is this is from the OT

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

An this is from the NT

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Brother Glen

and just HOW does this answer what you quote from KenH?

 

[KenH]

The Bible is very clear, that for ANY sinner who wants to get to heaven, they FIRST must REPENT of their sins, and BELIEVE in Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord. Period. There can be NO salvation without this! Anything else is a FALSE, human "gospel"

The Holy Spirit regenerated me and and I was granted the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus. I certainly did not regenerate myself and I certainly did not find the strength within this vile sinful body of mine to have repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The Holy Spirit regenerated me and and I was granted the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus. I certainly did not regenerate myself and I certainly did not find the strength within this vile sinful body of mine to have repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus.

so you are right and Jesus Christ is wrong? Read Mark 1:15 and Luke 24:47 for starters

Personal experience that is not in line with what the Bible teaches, is without any merit!

 

[Silverhair]

And the answer is: God loves the His elect because He loves His elect. (Deuteronomy 7:7-8)

Just as God loved ancient Israel because He loved them, and not that they met some condition(such as being more in number than other peoples), God loves His elect(His chosen) because He loved them and gave them to His Son to be their Surety, not because they met some condition.

@KenH you have no basis of saying that you are part of the elect. Are you a Jew, as that is who Deu 7:7-8 is referring to not gentiles. Calvinist's have to take verses out of context in the hope they will support their view.

No calvinist can know for sure if they are saved as they think they have been given faith after they are saved. Remember you calvinist's do not even have the ability trust in Christ until after you are born again.

 

[KenH]

so you are right and Jesus Christ is wrong? Read Mark 1:15 and Luke 24:47 for starters

Personal experience that is not in line with what the Bible teaches, is without any merit!

I am not going take credit for faith and repentance from dead works. I will not! God did that by making me willing in the day of His power, not my power. (Psalms 110:3)

 

[SavedByGrace]

I am not going take credit for faith and repentance from dead works. I will not! God did that by making me willing in the day of His power, not my power. (Psalms 110:3)

pointless argument!

By a sinner repenting of their sins and believing in Jesus Christ, both of which they have to DO, is not "merit", but obeying the Commands of the Lord!

 

[KenH]

No calvinist can know for sure if they are saved

Well, I am sure that God saved me, so by your definition, I am not a Calvinist. Which is fine by me, as I don't like being called a Calvinist, anyway.

 

[KenH]

By a sinner repenting of their sins and believing in Jesus Christ, both of which they have to DO, is not "merit", but obeying the Commands of the Lord!

If a person claims that they came to faith in Christ and repentance from dead works by their own power, then he is saying it is a work of man in so doing, and not a work of God.

 

[robycop3]

If a person claims that they came to faith in Christ and repentance from dead works by their own power, then he is saying it is a work of man in so doing, and not a work of God.

Jesus knocks on every door at least once. It's up to the occupant to get up, open the door, & let Him in.

 

[KenH]

Jesus knocks on every door at least once. It's up to the occupant to get up, open the door, & let Him in.

Creature man doesn't get to tell his Creator what the Creator can or cannot do. The Creator "calls the shots", not the creature.

 

[SavedByGrace]

If a person claims that they came to faith in Christ and repentance from dead works by their own power, then he is saying it is a work of man in so doing, and not a work of God.

This is what Jesus says

At that time, some people came and reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 And He responded to them, “Do you think that these Galileans were more sinful than all Galileans because they suffered these things? 3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well! 4 Or those 18 that the tower in Siloam fell on and killed—do you think they were more sinful than all the people who live in Jerusalem? 5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well!” Luke 13

Clearly, REPENTANCE from sins is a per-requirement for any sinner to be saved!

I have nothing further to say on this, because you are rejecting the Bible, and accepting your own personal theology!

 

[KenH]

Clearly, REPENTANCE from sins is a per-requirement for any sinner to be saved!

God gives those He chose, before the world began, faith in Christ and repentance of dead works. The Holy Spirit regenerates God's elect under the hearing of the gospel, and the result is that they believe in Christ and repent of their dead works.

 

[Silverhair]

Well, I am sure that God saved me, so by your definition, I am not a Calvinist. Which is fine by me, as I don't like being called a Calvinist, anyway.

You are hoping that you are saved as you do not have any biblical support for your claim. What you actually do is deny what the bible does say regarding faith and salvation. A calvinist by any other name is still a calvinist.

I just read your post # 118 you have destroyed the gospel of Christ by your Gnostic philosophy. You are lost in the tall grass of your false theology It is not the bible you believe but what some man has told you the bible says..

 

[Silverhair]

Well, I am sure that God saved me, so by your definition, I am not a Calvinist. Which is fine by me, as I don't like being called a Calvinist, anyway.

You are hoping that you are saved as you do not have any biblical support for your claim. What you actually do is deny what the bible does say regarding faith and salvation. A calvinist by any other name is still a calvinist.

I just read your post # 118 you have destroyed the gospel of Christ by your Gnostic philosophy. You are lost in the tall grass of your false theology It is not the bible you believe but what some man has told you the bible says..