Are you a Hyper Calvinism, as in God ordain the Fall and caused Adam to actually sin then?Duh yeah
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Are you a Hyper Calvinism, as in God ordain the Fall and caused Adam to actually sin then?Duh yeah
This is one point, or area, in which we seem to disagree a bit.
I see that God's word says that He hardened Pharoah's heart against Him and His words...so this I take literally. As I see Romans 9 telling us, He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens;
It's that simple, whether or not I found it easy to come to grips with it right way.
For example...in reading the book of Exodus, I clearly see the Lord telling Moses that He would harden Pharoah's heart;
For the specific purpose of him not letting God's people go.
I then see that the reason that He did so, was so that God would bring the children of Israel out of Egypt by a mighty hand, rendering His just judgements upon the Egyptians in the form of plagues and other disasters.
To me, this is a God that we as believers should fall on our faces before, in awe of His power and in serious respect for both His holiness and willingness to exact judgement whenever and wherever He sees fit.
We are the sinners, and His children are the vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory.
That we as believers are even in His grace speaks volumes regarding His willingness to show any mercy and goodness to men.
He started his hard heart, and for His glory and plans and purposes to be worked out, God finished itHey Dave
God's hardening of hearts is not done arbitrarily, but is usually done in response to sin and rejection of Him. Remember, if someone doesn't believe, they are condemned already (John 3:18). So it's justified, or justice. But, God will never inject unbelief into someone. That goes against His nature, His Character. That's why He never tempts people.
It's a very complex thing in Scripture. As Pharoah's heart was hardened by God, Pharoah ultimately hardened his heart by Himself also (Exodus 8:5, 32, 9:34). We see this same overlapping with regards to God working, using evil, but not causing it, especially with regards to chastising, hardening, etc.
Greetings again Dave. Thank you for your thoughtful post and your gracious attempt to understand my ramblings.
I agree that mankind in their depravity is not free, i.e., they are slaves to sin. I further agree that mankind, after salvation and regeneration, may have two natures. Which is then to be fully restored to one nature after the resurrection. Therefore, the desires of the flesh are still strong as our desires of the spirit grow.
You suggest that it is Paul's character that restrains him. But I think it is Paul's finiteness that restrains him. I suppose we could agree that it is Paul's finite character that restrains him. A finite character can be restrained by a more superior character, even if that superior character is also finite. Thus how Satan makes us slaves to sin through deception even though he is also of finite character.
But God is not finite in any way. He is not conflicted by two natures, not restrained by finiteness (because He is infinite and Omni-everyting). Nothing therefore constrains or restrains God. He is the very definition of free.
All this seems to be about finite human beings and the flesh. Which I agree, mankind is retrained and constrained by various factors. But using the finite as an example of the infinite seems misused.
It seems to me that the Titus 1:1-2 verse is one of assurance of faithfulness not a lesson of God's limitations of constraint. It is written that God "who cannot lie" as an assurance that God is faithful and true in our "hope of enteral life" which God "promised before time began" (Tit 1:2). Which basically means God is consistently God, eternally. Never stopping to be God, never ending to be consistent. Thus one can count on that fact.
Yes, I agree. God is infinite and there is no power greater than God to tempt Him or overcome Him into being something He is not. Because He is not flawed and is infinite, He is free to be that which He desires and not being overcome by something He does not desire. But Paul, being finite, is sometimes overcome and does that which He does not wish to do.
This seems to support my position more. That is, what is this freedom that would affirm that freedom is the denying of one's self? It seems to me that the very fact that one deny's themselves is proof that one is not really free. Only those who are slaves, deny themselves at the expense of who they really are. We, as slaves to sin, deny ourselves and who we really were created to be. This denying of one's self is not freedom, but slavery.
I guess one could say that because God cannot deny Himself, He cannot be a slave. But what sense does it make to say this is God not being free? Or that God is restricted in some way because He cannot be a slave?
But then I muse about the Incarnation and Christ coming as a servant to others. I wonder if God can even become a slave through the incarnation, thus even dispelling this supposed restraint or restriction.
Cmon, haven't you read what Ive posted ? Whats not clear about it ?Are you a Hyper Calvinism, as in God ordain the Fall and caused Adam to actually sin then?
How is God and Christ Glorified ? How was Christ faithful unto death ? Death for what ? Why did He have to be faithful unto death ? Did His death Glorify God the Father ?
Are you a Hyper Calvinism, as in God ordain the Fall and caused Adam to actually sin then?
Did Christ dying for sin Glorify God ? Yes or NoHow was Christ faithful unto death ?
He died
How was Christ faithful unto death ?
He died
I am assuming a yes then?Cmon, haven't you read what Ive posted ? Whats not clear about it ?
@Silverhair
He died for sin 1 Cor 15:3
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Was God Glorified Jn 12:27-29
27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
Don't assume read what I wroteI am assuming a yes then?
Did Christ's death for sin glorify God?Christ's faithfulness glorified God. That is something that you just do not seem able to grasp.
His whole life glorified God BF.
Did Christ dying for the sins of his people glorify God?BF you really do struggle with the word of God don't you. You just cannot accept the fact that Jesus's whole life glorified the Father.
(NASB 95) Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Did Christ's death for sin glorify God?
Did Christ dying for the sins of his people glorify God?
Did Christ coming into the world dying for sin glorify God?Christ's faithfulness glorified God. That is something that you just do not seem able to grasp.
His whole life glorified God BF.
Did Christ coming into the world dying for sin glorify God?
1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.Do you have a problem with the English language BF? You do seem to have a problem understanding what I wrote.
Lets try it again:
Christ's faithfulness glorified God. That is something that you just do not seem able to grasp.
His whole life glorified God BF.
I put in bold this time so that you may actually see it and not have to ask again.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.
"He had preached to the Jews; he had given them full proof that he was the Messiah; he had collected his disciples; he had taught them the nature of his religion; he had given them his parting counsel, and there was nothing remaining to be done but to return to God." Barnes
Actually what we see in scripture is that God the Farther glorified the Son.
1Pe 1:21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him [Jesus] from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.