Palestinians, Israel

[JonC]

What we have to remember is Israel does not exist on stolen land. The Palestinians and Jews lived together for centuries under the Ottoman Empire. This was coexistence, but often hostile coexistance. Jews were dhimmis (second class citizens).

Then you had the British Mandate (for, what, 20 somethcoexistence.

Next you have Israel as a nation. The Jewish diaspora (Jews that had fled to Europe, Spain, Portugal, North Africa, Iran, etc to escape persecution) returned to their ancestory land.

Do Jews who's grear-great- (etc) grandparents fled to Iran and North Africa have darker skin than those who escaped to Europe? Yes. They married people in the area they found themselves. But they are no less ethnic Jews.

Race is a social construct. Ethnicity is not. Americans are obsessed with the color of people's skin and tend to confuse lighter skin with "caucasion".

Literally "Caucasion" refers to ethnicity (people from the Caucasus, a geographic region). In the United States it has come to mean "white".

It is not difficult to look at people, like Benjamin Netanyahu, and discern he is of a semitic lineage. But his skin tone is lighter (he is an Ashkenazi Jew).

 

[asterisktom]

"Political and Historical Definition: A major political structure where a dominant central state (the core) exercises formal or informal control over weaker peripheral regions, cultures, and ethnic groups, often acquired through conquest or colonization."

According to this definition from Google (yes, I know) we certainly are an empire, having bases and influence around the world. Just because many Americans are ignorant or dulled to the awareness of this does not take away the fact.

 

[Conan]

Scott Ritter : Russia Has Already Defeated NATO and Ukraine

Scott Ritter : Russia Has Already Defeated NATO and Ukraine

www.youtube.com

 

[Foxmeister]

What we have to remember is Israel does not exist on stolen land. The Palestinians and Jews lived together for centuries under the Ottoman Empire. This was coexistence, but often hostile coexistance. Jews were dhimmis (second class citizens).

Then you had the British Mandate (for, what, 20 somethcoexistence.

Next you have Israel as a nation. The Jewish diaspora (Jews that had fled to Europe, Spain, Portugal, North Africa, Iran, etc to escape persecution) returned to their ancestory land.

Do Jews who's grear-great- (etc) grandparents fled to Iran and North Africa have darker skin than those who escaped to Europe? Yes. They married people in the area they found themselves. But they are no less ethnic Jews.

Race is a social construct. Ethnicity is not. Americans are obsessed with the color of people's skin and tend to confuse lighter skin with "caucasion".

Literally "Caucasion" refers to ethnicity (people from the Caucasus, a geographic region). In the United States it has come to mean "white".

It is not difficult to look at people, like Benjamin Netanyahu, and discern he is of a semitic lineage. But his skin tone is lighter (he is an Ashkenazi Jew).

There were no people called Palestinians until after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The Greeks were the ones who named the area of the southern Levant, Palestine. Canaanites, Israelis, and Philistines were the inhabitants of that region. The word Palestinians never existed until after WWI when the area was under a British mandate. All inhabitants in that area to include Jews were referred to as Palestinians by the Brits. It was the UN who first decided a two-state solution was needed to resolve conflict between the Arabs and Israeli Jews, mandating the Gaza strip be the home of the Arabs and referred to them as Palestinians. There has never been a nation called Palestine, just a geographical area called that by the Greeks. Your second sentence should be "The Arabs and Jews lived together for centuries under the Ottoman Empire.

 

[Conan]

There were no people called Palestinians until after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The Greeks were the ones who named the area of the southern Levant, Palestine. Canaanites, Israelis, and Philistines were the inhabitants of that region. The word Palestinians never existed until after WWI when the area was under a British mandate. All inhabitants in that area to include Jews were referred to as Palestinians by the Brits. It was the UN who first decided a two-state solution was needed to resolve conflict between the Arabs and Israeli Jews, mandating the Gaza strip be the home of the Arabs and referred to them as Palestinians. There has never been a nation called Palestine, just a geographical area called that by the Greeks. Your second sentence should be "The Arabs and Jews lived together for centuries under the Ottoman Empire.

And Christians.

 

[JonC]

There were no people called Palestinians until after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The Greeks were the ones who named the area of the southern Levant, Palestine. Canaanites, Israelis, and Philistines were the inhabitants of that region. The word Palestinians never existed until after WWI when the area was under a British mandate. All inhabitants in that area to include Jews were referred to as Palestinians by the Brits. It was the UN who first decided a two-state solution was needed to resolve conflict between the Arabs and Israeli Jews, mandating the Gaza strip be the home of the Arabs and referred to them as Palestinians. There has never been a nation called Palestine, just a geographical area called that by the Greeks. Your second sentence should be "The Arabs and Jews lived together for centuries under the Ottoman Empire.

True. I got lazy with the words.

 

[JonC]

"Political and Historical Definition: A major political structure where a dominant central state (the core) exercises formal or informal control over weaker peripheral regions, cultures, and ethnic groups, often acquired through conquest or colonization."

According to this definition from Google (yes, I know) we certainly are an empire, having bases and influence around the world. Just because many Americans are ignorant or dulled to the awareness of this does not take away the fact.

I noted this (in a roundabout way). Websters notes two definitions - a literal definition for "empire", which the US is not, and as a figure of speech (a large corporation, a powerful government, etc).

The problem is people justify the use of "empire" as the figutative definition (a large, influential nation) applies but goes on with the meaning of the literal definition.


But yes, the US, Canada, UK, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. can be called "empires". But it is a different definition.

 

[Ben1445]

I have been on this board for many years and I used to do exactly what people like you demand of me. I would provide evidence only to have the evidence discounted because the sources were not within the narrow limit of sources that you think are legitimate. Not wasting my time any more on that pointless step. I can live with the predictable tin hat jibes.

That’s fine with me as long as you expect them.

 

[Foxmeister]

And Christians.

True. However, a large percentage of people condemn Israel claiming the Palestinians were there first.

 

[Conan]

True. However, a large percentage of people condemn Israel claiming the Palestinians were there first.

Do you understand there was not a country of Israel after AD 125? After the Romans destroyed it it was rulled by various Muslim Conquests. It was even briefly taken by the Crusaders. At some point the Ottoman Empire. Then the British. Muslims, Christians and Jews all lived there. It was Home to all 3. To ask any off them to get out of their homes for foreigners from Europe and America is a crime. Muslim, Christians Jews lived there.

 

[Foxmeister]

Do you understand there was not a country of Israel after AD 125? After the Romans destroyed it it was rulled by various Muslim Conquests. It was even briefly taken by the Crusaders. At some point the Ottoman Empire. Then the British. Muslims, Christians and Jews all lived there. It was Home to all 3. To ask any off them to get out of their homes for foreigners from Europe and America is a crime. Muslim, Christians Jews lived there.

I suggest you study your Bible, especially the prophecies concerning Israel that go beyond today into the future. Then come back and tell us whether or not the Jews stole the land.

 

[Conan]

I suggest you study your Bible, especially the prophecies concerning Israel that go beyond today into the future. Then come back and tell us whether or not the Jews stole the land.

Jesus does not drop 2000 # Bombs on Women and Children. Jesus does not kick Palestinians, Muslim or Christian out of their ancestral homes to make room for Settlers from Europe and America . Jesus did not issue the stand down order, or the Hannibal order. Jesus does not want American Missiles to hit Iranian School Girls.

 

[Foxmeister]

Jesus does not drop 2000 # Bombs on Women and Children. Jesus does not kick Palestinians, Muslim or Christian out of their ancestral homes to make room for Settlers from Europe and America . Jesus did not issue the stand down order, or the Hannibal order. Jesus does not want American Missiles to hit Iranian School Girls.

I'm not condoning war at all. I'll say again, read the prophecies concerning the future of Israel.

 

[Ben1445]

Jesus does not drop 2000 # Bombs on Women and Children. Jesus does not kick Palestinians, Muslim or Christian out of their ancestral homes to make room for Settlers from Europe and America . Jesus did not issue the stand down order, or the Hannibal order. Jesus does not want American Missiles to hit Iranian School Girls.

When Jesus does come to execute justice and judgment, people will wish for a 2000# bomb instead. As I recall, they will be willing for the rocks to fall on them. And it will be world of men women and children.

And if Palestinians don’t want their children killed, they should stop hiding behind them like cowards.
Cowards use women and children as shields.

And you defend them.

 

[Conan]

When Jesus does come to execute justice and judgment, people will wish for a 2000# bomb instead. As I recall, they will be willing for the rocks to fall on them. And it will be world of men women and children.

And if Palestinians don’t want their children killed, they should stop hiding behind them like cowards.
Cowards use women and children as shields.

And you defend them.

They are not hiding behind them. Where did you get that from, Hitler? Or your mind? They are being murdered. And you agree to it. The murder of children and Women . You are the one using children and women for genocide, just like Netananyahu. May God reveal to you what's wrong with murdering children and women and unarmed men. Perhaps as usual you don't really know what's going on . May God open your mind to what is really going on

 

[Ben1445]

They are not hiding behind them. Where did you get that from, Hitler?

No. I never met Hitler. I don’t know what you are talking about.

Or your mind?

No. I didn’t make it up. They post the videos of themselves in civilian clothes running around with military equipment.

They are being murdered.

When they are carrying weapons it’s about as fair as you are going to get.

And you agree to it.

Agree to what? I think Hamas should surrender. They started it on October 7. They haven’t surrendered yet. I don’t know what you think should happen. It’s war. If Hamas doesn’t want to risk the lives of their families, they shouldn’t hide behind them.

The murder of children and Women .

You are quite susceptible to false propaganda. You eat up lies like candy.

You are the one using children and women for genocide, just like Netananyahu.

I haven’t killed anyone. I am not advocating for the genocide of anyone. Maybe you have forgotten but Hamas openly calls for genocide when chanting from the river to the sea. If Hamas would surrender, I think it would end.
But I am not killing anyone. You have the fantasies of a lunatic.

May God reveal to you what's wrong with murdering children and women and unarmed men.

They are armed men. The liars just move their weapons before they broadcast the images of their children they sacrifice on their jihad. Tell Hamas to stop the genocide (if they would listen) and you will find that it will stop.

Perhaps as usual you don't really know what's going on .

I don’t listen to your nonsense propaganda.
You have a strong delusion. You believe a lie.

May God open your mind to what is really going on

I hope that for you.

 

[Conan]

No. I never met Hitler. I don’t know what you are talking about.


No. I didn’t make it up. They post the videos of themselves in civilian clothes running around with military equipment.


When they are carrying weapons it’s about as fair as you are going to get.


Agree to what? I think Hamas should surrender. They started it on October 7. They haven’t surrendered yet. I don’t know what you think should happen. It’s war. If Hamas doesn’t want to risk the lives of their families, they shouldn’t hide behind them.


You are quite susceptible to false propaganda. You eat up lies like candy.


I haven’t killed anyone. I am not advocating for the genocide of anyone. Maybe you have forgotten but Hamas openly calls for genocide when chanting from the river to the sea. If Hamas would surrender, I think it would end.
But I am not killing anyone. You have the fantasies of a lunatic.


They are armed men. The liars just move their weapons before they broadcast the images of their children they sacrifice on their jihad. Tell Hamas to stop the genocide (if they would listen) and you will find that it will stop.


I don’t listen to your nonsense propaganda.
You have a strong delusion. You believe a lie.



I hope that for you.

Israel has Apache helicopters. Israel has Heavy Tanks. They have Armoured Personnel carriers. They have heavy artillery. They have Jet aircraft of all Types including Americas best. The Palestinians have none of these things. They have old AK's. They have homemade 50 Caliber Rifles, single shot. They have the ability to shoot down some Israeli helicopters with hand held rockets. They also had one man girochopters. They are surrounded by walls of Barbed wire. It is the worlds largest open door prisoner. I am sure you have seen the walls.

On October the 7th they went on a raid to take prisoners to exchange for 30,000 Palestinians held captive by Israel in prisons. They were not charged with crimes, just held because that's how they treat Palestinians. Even children were swept up . I wish you saw the prisons, even many Israelis are, or were sympathetic. The head of the Al Qussam brigades was rescued that way along time ago. Prisoner exchange.

The Al Qussam brigades went over the walls in one man girochopters. They broke holes in the fences with bulldozers. Who's I do not know. But the amazing thing was that night there were no Israel Guards in the garrison towns guarding their positions. There was a stand down order for 8 or 6 hours. As Charlie Kirk said, you can get anywhere in Israel in r45 minutes by helicopter. Why didn't the Israeli Army respond? That's what Charlie Kirk realized. The Palestinians no doubt shot the armed guards they came across and took unarmed people hostage. Every Israeli citizen is in the reserves until age 41. They took hundred of hostages as far as I know. But after a certain time the Israelis issued the Hannibal Order, no one was getting back alive. All vehicles were destroyed . Those with Al Qussam brigades fighters, those with Al Qussam brigades and Israeli hostages in them and those with Israeli concert goers who were just fleeing the attack by the Brigades, or terrorist. Many were destroyed by Hellfire missile from Apaches gunships. Some by Tank rounds. An Israeli woman testified she was a hostage in a house with 5 Palestinians who after being surrounded gave up. The Tank put a round threw the house everyone was killed but the girl who escaped and testified. So about 100 or 200 hostages made it back alive and a lot did not because of the Hannibal order. Some of this is reported by Israeli In newspapers Heretz. All of the blown up cars were buried quickly in the desert. Palestinian terrorist cars. Israeli captured cars. And Israel cars.

 

[Ben1445]

Israel has Apache helicopters. Israel has Heavy Tanks. They have Armoured Personnel carriers. They have heavy artillery. They have Jet aircraft of all Types including Americas best. The Palestinians have none of these things. They have old AK's. They have homemade 50 Caliber Rifles, single shot.

And that makes them in the right?? Or does it just exhibit the amount of hate they have for Jews?

They have the ability to shoot down some Israeli helicopters with hand held rockets. They also had one man girochopters. They are surrounded by walls of Barbed wire. It is the worlds largest open door prisoner. I am sure you have seen the walls.

On October the 7th they went on a raid to take prisoners

And all the inhumane burning of children in ovens, rape and unmentionable acts they did that were nothing like taking prisoners are justified in your mind and not worthy of an answer by Israel. They as a nation should just allow themselves to be raped pillaged and killed??

to exchange for 30,000 Palestinians held captive by Israel in prisons. They were not charged with crimes, just held because that's how they treat Palestinians. Even children were swept up . I wish you saw the prisons, even many Israelis are, or were sympathetic. The head of the Al Qussam brigades was rescued that way along time ago. Prisoner exchange.

The Al Qussam brigades went over the walls in one man girochopters. They broke holes in the fences with bulldozers. Who's I do not know. But the amazing thing was that night there were no Israel Guards in the garrison towns guarding their positions. There was a stand down order for 8 or 6 hours. As Charlie Kirk said, you can get anywhere in Israel in r45 minutes by helicopter. Why didn't the Israeli Army respond? That's what Charlie Kirk realized. The Palestinians no doubt shot the armed guards they came across and took unarmed people hostage. Every Israeli citizen is in the reserves until age 41. They took hundred of hostages as far as I know. But after a certain time the Israelis issued the Hannibal Order, no one was getting back alive. All vehicles were destroyed . Those with Al Qussam brigades fighters, those with Al Qussam brigades and Israeli hostages in them and those with Israeli concert goers who were just fleeing the attack by the Brigades, or terrorist. Many were destroyed by Hellfire missile from Apaches gunships. Some by Tank rounds. An Israeli woman testified she was a hostage in a house with 5 Palestinians who after being surrounded gave up. The Tank put a round threw the house everyone was killed but the girl who escaped and testified. So about 100 or 200 hostages made it back alive and a lot did not because of the Hannibal order. Some of this is reported by Israeli In newspapers Heretz. All of the blown up cars were buried quickly in the desert. Palestinian terrorist cars. Israeli captured cars. And Israel cars.

I think you have the details mixed up. It was Israel who was on holiday which explains the lack of guard. It was Israel and tourists who were killed and taken hostage.

But you will believe whatever quack nonsense Aljazeera puts out.

 

[Foxmeister]

They are not hiding behind them. Where did you get that from, Hitler? Or your mind? They are being murdered. And you agree to it. The murder of children and Women . You are the one using children and women for genocide, just like Netananyahu. May God reveal to you what's wrong with murdering children and women and unarmed men. Perhaps as usual you don't really know what's going on . May God open your mind to what is really going on

You're not looking at the facts. What Hamas did on October was criminal. They killed 1200 people and then kidnapped 251 people to hold as hostages in an attempt to force Israel to release 5200 from prisons.

They do hide behind their people just as the Palestinian Liberation Organization did before Hamas took over. They hide behind them to use their own people as fodder in an attempt to make the Israelis look as if they are committing genocide. The truth be known, Hamas has said declared many times they want every Jew killed. Hezbollah is no different. Both launch attacks on Israel and then scream bloody murder when Israel retaliates in kind.

Reading the posts you've written on this subject gives the impression you're anti-semetic.

 

[asterisktom]

When Jesus does come to execute justice and judgment, people will wish for a 2000# bomb instead. As I recall, they will be willing for the rocks to fall on them. And it will be world of men women and children.

And if Palestinians don’t want their children killed, they should stop hiding behind them like cowards.
Cowards use women and children as shields.

And you defend them.

This judgment happened to the Jews, especially the leaders, in the first century. As Jesus had promised it would happen in that generation.