Featured 1 John 5:1 we become Sons of God after believing, Regeneration after Faith

Who other than you five and those who hold you view say your right? Who on here hold opposing views to yours? Oh that's right any who hold opposing views to yours must be wrongAt least in your opinion.

 

So let's see what Calvin says about this.


We see Calvin on this subject. What does he say about our believing?

1 John 5:1 Calvin

“1Whosoever believeth He confirms by another reason, that faith and brotherly love are united; for since God regenerates us by faith he must necessarily be loved by us as a Father; and this love embraces all his children. Then faith cannot be separated from love.

The first truth is, that all born of God, believe that Jesus is the Christ; where, again, you see that Christ alone is set forth as the object of faith, as in him it finds righteousness, life, and every blessing that can be desired, and God in all that he is. (89) Hence the only true way of believing is when we direct our minds to him. Besides, to believe that he is the Christ, is to hope from him all those things which have been promised as to the Messiah

Nor is the title, Christ, given him here without reason, for it designates the office to which he was appointed by the Father. As, under the Law, the full restoration of all things, righteousness and happiness, were promised through the Messiah; so at this day the whole of this is more clearly set forth in the gospel. Then Jesus cannot be received as Christ, except salvation be sought from him, since for this end he was sent by the Father, and is daily offered to us.

Hence the Apostle declares that all they who really believe have been born of God; for faith is far above the reach of the human mind, so that we must be drawn to Christ by our heavenly Father; for not any of us can ascend to him by his own strength. And this is what the Apostle teaches us in his Gospel, when he says, that those who believe in the name of the only-begotten, were not born of blood nor of the flesh. (John 1:13.) And Paul says, that we are endued, not with the spirit of this world, but with the Spirit that is from God, that we may know the things given us by him. (1 Corinthians 2:12.) For eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor the mind conceived, the reward laid up for those who love God; but the Spirit alone penetrates into this mystery. And further, as Christ is given to us for sanctification, and brings with it the Spirit of regeneration, in short, as he unites us to his own body, it is also another reason why no one can have faith, except he is born of God.

Loveth him also that is begotten of him Augustine and some others of the ancients have applied this to Christ, but not correctly. For though the Apostle uses the singular number, yet he includes all the faithful; and the context plainly shows that his purpose was no other than to trace up brotherly love to faith as its fountain. It is, indeed, an argument drawn from the common course of nature; but what is seen among men is transferred to God. (90)

But we must observe, that the Apostle does not so speak of the faithful only, and pass by those who are without, as though the former are alone to be loved, and no care and no account to be had for the latter; but he teaches us as it were by this first exercise to love all without exception, when he bids us to make a beginning with the godly. (91)

“Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been begotten by God; and every one who loves the begetter loves also the begotten by him.” — Ed.”

Verse 5

5Who is he that overcometh the world This is a reason for the previous sentence; that is, we conquer by faith, because we derive strength from Christ; as Paul also says,

“I can do all things through him that strengtheneth me,”
(Philippians 4:13.)

He only then can conquer Satan and the world, and not succumb to his own flesh, who, diffident as to himself, recumbs on Christ’s power alone. For by faith he means a real apprehension of Christ, or an effectual laying hold on him, by which we apply his power to ourselves."

Notice what Calvin said: "The first truth is, that all born of God, believe that Jesus is the Christ; where, again, you see that Christ alone is set forth as the object of faith, as in him it finds righteousness, life, and every blessing that can be desired, and God in all that he is. (89) Hence the only true way of believing is when we direct our minds to him. Besides, to believe that he is the Christ, is to hope from him all those things which have been promised as to the Messiah."
He said we must direct our minds to him in order to believe. But does he contradict this statement when he says: "And further, as Christ is given to us for sanctification, and brings with it the Spirit of regeneration, in short, as he unites us to his own body, it is also another reason why no one can have faith, except he is born of God." Here it could be taken that he is saying God gives Fatih, but look closer he says first, "The first truth is, that all born of God, believe that Jesus is the Christ;" to be born of God we first had to believe we had to make Christ alone the focus of our Faith, He didn't say God had to focus us with Faith but that we must direct our minds to him. So when he says "And further, as Christ is given to us for sanctification, and brings with it the Spirit of regeneration, in short, as he unites us to his own body, it is also another reason why no one can have faith, except he is born of God." There is no contradiction, we receive all this when we believe when we direct our minds upon Christ in Faith. Then for verse 5 Calvin states: "5Who is he that overcometh the world This is a reason for the previous sentence; that is, we conquer by faith, because we derive strength from Christ;" after Faith we obtain strength from our being born of God. Therefore, Love for brethren,we produce righteous works not fleshly righteousness bu works as lead by the Holy Spirit, Being Born of God we love God. How are we Born of God, by believing that by directing our minds upon Him, as Calvin makes clear.

 

I posted no such teaching as Calvin also stated if you read what he said ""The first truth is, that all born of God, believe that Jesus is the Christ;" In other words believing leads to being born of God. That is clearly what Calvin is saying, He says nothing in any of this that God gives man Faith to believe. Look again "Christ alone is set forth as the object of faith" and then he says that we are "to believe that he is the Christ," and the he makes it clear what believing is it "is to hope from him all those things which have been promised as to the Messiah." Then notice more of what he states, "the Apostle declares that all they who really believe have been born of God" how have they been born of God, by believing. See right here is what Calvin states, "the only true way of believing is when we direct our minds to him." We that is every human must direct their minds to Christ in order to believe. When we believe then he says, "This is a reason for the previous sentence; that is, we conquer by faith, because we derive strength from Christ;" Our faith gives us strength not that Faith is given but that Strength comes from the Faith we place in Christ and then we become conquerors. Calvin supports that we place Faith in Christ and are then regenerated he doesn't say it is vice versa. You misread what I originally posted or you read your belief into what Calvin taught.

 

No actually the quote supports my view, we must believe that is have Faith to be saved. Calvin is clear on that,

Then too is Henry clear,
"Faith is the cause of victory, the means, the instrument, the spiritual armour and artillery by which we overcome; for, (1.) In and by faith we cleave to Christ, in contempt of, and opposition to, the world. (2.) Faith works in and by love to God and Christ, and so withdraws us from the love of the world. (3.) Faith sanctifies the heart, and purifies it from those sensual lusts by which the world obtains such sway and dominion over souls. (4.) It receives and derives strength from the object of it, the Son of God, for conquering the frowns and flatteries of the world. (5.) It obtains by gospel promise a right to the indwelling Spirit of grace, that is greater than he who dwells in the world. (6.) It sees an invisible world at hand, with which this world is not worthy to be compared, and into which it tells the soul in which it resides it must be continually prepared to enter; and thereupon,

III. The apostle concludes that it is the real Christian that is the true conqueror of the world: Who is he then that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Seems you guys keep reading into what these men say. Pleas show in either post where it states "THAT GOD GIVES MAN THE FAITH." Let me help here is what Calvin stated yet again: " "The first truth is, that all born of God, believe that Jesus is the Christ;" they are born because they believe not that they believe because they are born of God. HMM, let's look at this statement from that view, they have received saving faith in order to be born again, that is not quite what he stated, they that are born again let's use it with that perfect passive verb you guys say it requires, "they that are born again have been born again because of faith." The are born again because they have believed not because they were saved first and then believed. Calvin doesn't follow that and neither does Matthew Henry. It takes twisting their words to get to match your beliefs.

 

Just as your patience is stretched with others who hold the view Faith before regeneration. Of course most of them aren't as tenacious as I.

 

For by Grace are you saved through Faith, and that not of yourself, it (Salvation) is the gift of God not works lest anyone should boast. What is the first thing listed after Grace, are you saved, therefore by the way you determine that Faith comes before Salvation, then because being saved is listed first, then using that same logic Salvation is listed before faith to become the gift of God.

Romans 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it (Faith) was counted unto him for righteousness." What is it to believe but to have Faith" Do you see it, He believed and because of that Faith righteousness was imputed into Abraham's account, whose righteousness, Christ Righteousness.

By Faith Abraham was counted as Righteous. James 2:23, "And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it (Faith) was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God" And it what is the "it" Faith, Righteous was placed into Abraham's account because he believed that is Faith imputation of Righteousness followed Faith. Whose faith was it? Abraham's or God's?

Galatians 3:6 "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

Again because of Abraham's faith imputation of Righteousness occured and when are we declared Righteous, after Faith but also when we are regenerated.

Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Again over and and over it is imputation of Righteousness that is becoming in Right standing with God, because of believing that is having Faith then righteousness is imputed to those who believe. Those who believe become born of God.

Now if we have faith and regeneration given by God at some arbitrary time then we also have Righteousness in our account. It would not be by Faith because God gave us Faith therefore God must have also given us Christ Righteousness and therefore it is not because of faith but because he regenerated us and made us right with Him before we believed. That is just so backwards.

 

That is what I have been trying to get across. Regeneration takes place the moment we believe and call upon the Lord. We are not regenerated before belief.

 

Welcome back did you see my question I posted in post #94

 

No regeneration occurs the moment we believe.