Featured 2 Thessalonians 2:13 What does it say?

1) Note that no quote of the claimed statement is presented.
2) Here is the actual statement:

Your own statement here disproves your analysis of 2 Thessalonians 2:13

The “chosen” in 1 Peter is accomplished by..

1. God Holy Spirit setting the person apart and…

2. God Holy Spirit sprinkling those folks with the blood of Christ ​

I did not make that bogus assertion. Your statement has now been shown to be false twice.

 

Obfuscation!!

Here is the actual statement: of Canadyjd,

Your [Van's] own statement here disproves your analysis of 2 Thessalonians 2:13

The “chosen” in 1 Peter is accomplished by..

1. God Holy Spirit setting the person apart and…

2. God Holy Spirit sprinkling those folks with the blood of Christ ​

I did not make that bogus assertion. Your statement has now been shown to be false three times..

 

Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amo 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isa 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
Isa 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
Isa 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
Isa 13:14 And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.
Isa 13:15 Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
Isa 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. FROM THE DAY OF THE LORD (CHRIST) JUST AS PAUL SAYS.

They are dreading the [dreadful] day of Christ, with good reason, not welcoming it.
Paul reassures them in v.1 that the rapture guarantees their salvation from the day of Christ.
This is black on white, and it is mentioned more than once of Paul:




So even back in 1Thessalonians, Paul had told the Thessalonians that they were not appointed to the tribulation wrath, hence in 2Thessalonians 2:5 he asks them:
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

So, no sir, I am not the one reading things into the text when context and 16 cross-references make clear Paul's point.

 

Yet another nice insight from Mr. Antonios, "The Christian has already obtained salvation of [our spirit/soul]... so this here [ missing all or part of the Great Tribulation due to the rapture] is the our body's salvation from the wrath experienced during the tribulation."

 

Peter rightly understood that he was in the last days at Pentacost. He, and all of us, are living in the time of tribulation.

*Acts 2:16-21*
But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy. And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke; the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

Notice in, 2 Thessalonians 2, there is no rapture out of the tribulation.

*2 Thessalonians 2:1-12*
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

We had a recent conversation concerning when Jesus was crucified and resurrected. The passages I used there can be applied to "the beginning" here. It is the beginning of something new. It begins on the day after the sabbath, the eighth day. Old things have passed away, behold all things are become new.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Joh 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Ac 22:20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
22 And they gave him audience unto this word,

Ac 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Ro 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Ac 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)

Ac 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Ro 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

There is an end.

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, an] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The beginning as God intends it is clearly given in scripture. It is the beginning of the church of Jesus Christ after his resurrection and repentant sinners began receiving his Holy Spirit, first the Jews and later the gentiles.

 

Your long rants are generally not to a point. You think you are.
Proverbs 17:27, "He that hath knowledge spareth his words: . . ."

 

Every time I address your comments, it is not to disagree with you. You seem to have a chip. I actually agreed with the comment you made on the op and I merely expressed how they bolster my point on our previous conversation.

Of course this is a new and different dispensation since the cross with a different divine operation and end goal. I agree the point is likely lost on non dispensationalists.

 

It's not lost on us who recognized dispensationalism as a very poor construct for systematic Bible study. It's like watching an 8 year old butcher a steer. The hacking leaves one cringing at the loss of meat.

 

Austin you are actually a rather nasty individual aren't you. You may call yourself a Christian but your words and actions do lead to a different conclusion. Time to put you on ignore again.

 

Your opinion of me doesn't matter in the slightest. In truth, you have been ignoring the whole of scripture since our first dialogue.
The dispensational construct leads to some wacky conclusions.

 

Here is an article in response to the one by Bill Mounce I have included the like to the article by Bill Mounce also. If the link does not work as a hot link then just copy it into your browser.

What do Prepositions Modify (2 Thess 2:13)? Bill Mounce
What do Prepositions Modify (2 Thess 2:13)? | billmounce.com


In this article by Dr. Brian Abasciano he points out the what he sees as the error in Dr. Mounce's view.

Dr Brian Abasciano

On his blog, Greek scholar Bill Mounce wrote a post on 2Th_2:13. It maintains, among other things, that “through faith” should be taken as modifying “salvation” in the text (which allows for and can favor unconditional election). I made a comment at Bill’s blog on the post, pointing out that Greek grammar actually favors taking “through faith” with “chosen”, {which would make election conditional on faith in Christ}.

We are chosen by faith (just as we are justified by faith).

{God chose for salvation, by the Spirit, because of faith}



Here is the comment by Dr Brian Abasciano

Bill, I would disagree with your conclusion about what the prepositional phrase modifies. Your own grammar recognizes that prepositional phrases most often modify verbs (sec. 8.15; cf. Daniel Wallace’s grammar, pp. 356-57, who even speaks as though modification of something other than a verb is exceptional for prepositions, though still obviously possible and something that occurs). Of course, they can modify nouns. But all things being equal, they are more likely to modify the verb. So I think that puts the objective grammar more on the side of taking the prepositional phrase as modifying the verb “chose”, though of course, it does not demand it.

Your point about word order does not count as strongly since word order does not figure strongly in Greek for determining function. Indeed, in the Septuagint (there are no other NT examples), whenever the word salvation is followed by a prepositional phrase beginning with en as in 2Th_2:13, it modifies the verb (1Sa_11:13; 2Sa_19:3; Psa_73:12; Psa_118:15 [where, notably, the tendency of the prepositional phrase to modify a verb is so strong that here it modifies an implied verb rather than the noun “salvation” that immediately precedes it!]; 1Ma_3:6) except for 2Ki_13:17, in which the prepositional phrase modifies a noun other than “salvation,” and there is no verb at all for it to modify.

Your point that the preposition might semantically modify the verbal idea in “salvation” does increase the likelihood that it might modify “salvation” here, but not enough to make it as likely or more likely than it simply modifying the actual verb, {has chosenG138} as it normally would. The actual usage of “salvation” + “en” in biblical literature does not bear out the idea of modification of the verbal idea in “salvation,” but rather the greater likelihood of it modifying the actual verb in the context.

As for your assertion that, “it would be a strange thing to say that God’s election was in some way connected to our belief,” that appears to be a theological presupposition carrying no weight. It just so happens that a major evangelical theological system (not to mention the consensual Christian tradition! See Thomas Oden, The Transforming Power of Grace) explicitly believes that God’s election is conditional on faith in Christ — Arminianism. So it doesn’t seem strange to me at all, but it seems like the most natural reading of 2Th_2:13 supports the Arminian position that election is conditional on faith in Christ.

 

Thank you for standing for truth,
Here from preceptaustin;
God has chosen you from the beginning - Chosen is not the usual word for choosing (eklego; eklektos) and is in the middle voice could be read more literally "having chosen for himself" giving us a beautiful picture of God's love for us! From the beginning probably means before time began but the phrase is not easy to interpret. Compare 1Co 2:7 (God predestined before the ages to our glory"); Ep 1:4+ ("He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world"); 2Ti 1:9+ ("according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity").

THOUGHT - He chose us FOR HIMSELF. That begs the question -- for whom am I living, SELF or SAVIOR?

Chosen (choosing) (138)(haireomai rom haireo = to take a particular position for oneself) means to make a choice of one or more possible alternatives and so to choose, select or prefer. Note also that the use of the aorist tense here marks it as a single and definite act. See related resource Who are the elect of God? | GotQuestions.org.

Beginning (746)(arche) means beginning of anything, and is used this way of Jesus (Jn 1:1, Heb 1:10).

Technical Note on beginning - Several manuscripts (B F G P 0278 33 81 323 1739 1881 al bo) read aparche ("as a first fruit"; i.e., as the first converts) instead of arche (ap' arches, "from the beginning," found in a D Y Û it sa), but this seems more likely to be a change by scribes who thought of the early churches in general in this way. But Paul would not be likely to call the Thessalonians "the first fruits" among his converts. Further, aparche, ("first fruit") is a well-worn term in Paul's letters (Rom 8:23; 11:16 ; 16:5; 1 Cor 15:20, 23; 16:15), while arche occurs nowhere else in Paul. Scribes might be expected to change the text to the more familiar term. Nevertheless, a decision is difficult (see arguments for aparche in TCGNT 568), and arche must be preferred only slightly. (NET NOTES)

For (eis = unto) salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith (pistis) in the truth (aletheia) - This is a beautiful description of our salvation showing the role of the Spirit setting us apart for God's use (GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY) and the exercising of faith (MAN'S RESPONSIBILITY, ALBEIT STILL DEPENDENT ON GOD) in the truth, the Gospel of our salvation (Eph 1:13+). Note that faith in the truth is the direct contrast with "not believe the truth" (2 Th 2:12).

Lewis - the product of God's loving and choosing is our deliverance from sin and the wrath of God (see 1 Th 5:9+ = "God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,"). (What Happens After the Restrainer Steps Aside?)

4991)(soteria from soter = Savior in turn from sozo = save, rescue, deliver) means deliverance from danger, destruction, peril and slavery to and consequences of sin and unto restoration to a former state (like the Garden of Eden but even better) of safety, health, well being and preservation from danger of destruction.

38)(hagiasmos from hagiazo = sanctify from hagios = holy, set apart, consecrated) describes the state of being set apart from sin and the world to God (the sense in 2 Thes 2:13) or the process of becoming more dedicated to God (aka progressive sanctification). "Human beings ultimately cannot sanctify themselves. The Triune God sanctifies. The Father sanctifies (1Co 1:30) by the Spirit (2Th 2:13; 1Pe 1:2) and in the name of Christ (1Co 6:11). Yet Christian faith is not merely passive. Paul calls for active trust and obedience." (from Mullen's excellent article on sanctification.)

4102)(pistis) means a firm persuasion, conviction, belief in the truth, veracity, reality or faithfulness. Not just mental assent but firm conviction, surrender to that truth and conduct emanating fr that surrender. In sum, faith shows itself genuine by a changed life. Pistis is used frequently in the epistles to the Thessalonians -1 Thess. 1:3; 1 Thess. 1:8; 1 Thess. 3:2; 1 Thess. 3:5; 1 Thess. 3:6; 1 Thess. 3:7; 1 Thess. 3:10; 1 Thess. 5:8; 2 Thess. 1:3; 2 Thess. 1:4; 2 Thess. 1:11; 2 Thess. 2:13; 2 Thess. 3:2

Truth (225) see notes above on aletheia. In context the truth is the Gospel (euaggelion)

 

Canadyjd

here is another off preceptaustin:
F B Meyer - 2 Thessalonians 2:13

God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation.

From the beginning! Who shall compute the contents of the vast unknown abyss, which is comprehended in that phrase? The beginning of creation was preceded by the anticipation of Redemption, and the love of God to all who were one with Christ.

God’s aim and purpose. Salvation. — Not simply our deliverance from the penalty, but from the power of all besetting sin; so that we may be delivered from the fear of our enemies, and serve Him in holiness and righteousness all our days. This He is prepared to give to us; but we must claim it by faith.

God’s choice. — Whom He did foreknow He also did predestinate. From all eternity He saw those who would be attracted to Jesus by a Divine affinity, and these were included in his gift to the Son. “Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me, and they have kept thy word.” We must not presume on the eternal choice; but we may be very grateful that the tendencies emanating from the fall are met, in mid-flow, by the grace and choice of the Almighty.

God’s method. Through sanctification of the Spirit. — The Holy Ghost sets us apart from sin, and consecrates us to God. “Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price.” Our sanctification is not the property of our soul, but its possession of the Holy One; not an attribute, but a Person. And belief of the truth. Let the Word of God dwell in you richly. Hide it in your heart, that you may be kept from sin. We are sanctified by the truth in so far as we expose our hearts to its entrance and rule. We are cleansed by the washing of water through the Word.


Called (invited, summoned) (2564)(kaleo) literally means to speak to another in order to attract their attention or to them bring nearer, either physically or in a personal relationship. Kaleo is a major verb in the NT and its specific meaning depends on the the context in which it is used. Play Softly and Tenderly Jesus Is Calling

Merrill Unger on call to salvation...“To call” signifies to invite to the blessings of the gospel, to offer salvation through Christ. This calling is, we believe, general, extending to all mankind. There is likewise a calling by the Spirit that is not resisted and clearly described as an efficacious calling. The efficacious calling of God is tantamount to His sovereign choice. There are now two elect companies in the world—Israel and the church. Both alike appear in Scripture as called by God. Israel’s calling is national, whereas the calling of those who compose the church is individual. It is wholly within the bounds of the efficacious calling that believers are termed the called ones. They are thus distinguished from the general mass who though subject to a general call are not efficaciously called. The efficacious call is the work of God in behalf of each elect person under grace. They are referred to as “those who are called according to His purpose” (Ro 8:28). The apostle goes on to declare that those whom God foreknew, He predestined; those whom He predestined, He called; those whom He called, He justified; and those whom He justified, He glorified (Ro 8:29, 30). Calling, then, is that choice on the part of God of an individual through an efficacious working in his mind and heart by the Holy Spirit so that the will of the one who is called operates by its own determination in the exercise of saving faith. In this way two great necessities are provided; namely, only those are called whom God has predestined to be justified and glorified and those who are thus called choose from their own hearts and minds to accept Christ as Savior. (Unger, M. F., Harrison, R. K., Vos, H. F., Barber, C. J., & Unger, M. F. (1988). The new Unger's Bible dictionary (Rev. and updated ed.). Chicago: Moody Press)

Gospel (2098)(euaggelion) As in the OT so among the Greeks the term was used for the proclamation of news of victory. Often the news was sent in a letter, but also came from the field of battle by ship, by horse, or a swift runner, who proclaims to the anxiously awaiting city the victory of the army, and the death or capture of the enemy. Ponder these secular uses of "gospel" in light of the NT teaching! Others uses included being gladdened by the birth of a son, by news of an approaching wedding, or of the death of someone. Liberation from enemies and deliverance from the demonic powers which frighten men are occasions for euaggelizesthai.

That (eis- unto - Literally "to the gaining of") - Our calling has a high, holy and eternal purpose (gain).

You may gain the glory (doxa) of our Lord (kurios) Jesus (Iesous) Christ (Christos) - There is glory for believers now but it is but a faint glimmer of the glory. Paul writes about our present glory "But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit." (2 Cor 3:18+). And so in this life as the Spirit uses the Word and brings about progressive sanctification, believers are experiencing an increasing glory. And yet this is but a very faint "preview of coming attractions" for John promises that "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." (1 Jn 3:2+, cf "day of redemption" = our glorification - Eph 4:30+, Eph 1:14+) Finally! Fully glorified! Like our Lord Jesus Christ forever and ever (see "eternal glory" 2 Ti 2:10+)! Hallelujah! Amen!