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Hyper-Calvinism
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
They were justified by faith in God but they were not cleared of their guilt.
Ex 34:6 And the Lord passed by before him, and proclaimed, The Lord, The Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
It takes the blood of Christ to wash away sins and he came to do that in the beginning of the 5th Millennium.
Re 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
It is not okay for you to be this wrong about salvation. Your teachers are leading you astray.
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DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
You wonder why people get so frustrated with you. You hammer on a point that you made up that I am supposed to be arguing. The problem is - I am not. Why would anyone engage with you when you do this? I'll say this one more time: when God decrees something will happen it will happen as certainly as if has already happened. But it still has to happen at the appropriate time. What you are doing is saying that because faith comes at a specific time - it cannot be said that someone will believe until they believe. That might have some merit if you or I decreed it but we are talking about a decree of God.
If God decrees you will go to a certain place in the future you will go. That does not mean that you will not use your own free will to get there. Both are true. I honestly don't know what else to say on this.
In the above statement it seems to be clearly stated that all who are condemned are acting in their own free will. Isn't that what you say is so important to you? Your real objection is that you don't like the view the Bible has of our free will. You think it is better than it actually is. That's something you'll have to work out for yourself but understand that not only Calvinists, but Arminians, and Wesleyans have the same view of our natural wills.
If you notice, in this confession, men are not ordained to do any sin or evil, the sin and evil are due to God respecting their "free wills". Now look, I read too, and I know the anti-Calvinist argument that goes something like this: To decree something positive, by definition, means that you are also decreeing the negative effect. While in a sense that is true, absolutely considering only the end result, but if you are really allowing free will creatures to continue acting according to their free will then I don't see how that logic would work as a complaint of the creature thus acting on his own. He is either acting on his own or he is not. And if he is then the negative result is on him, not God.
As we have already been over, they were not condemned because they were not of the elect. They are condemned because their free will choices, which are so important to you, are respected and they are left to do them all their lives. Scripture says why they are condemned in John 3:18 and 19. Those who are not condemned are those who believed. Those who believe are the elect. Without God's grace the one's called elect would not have believed either. We don't really know how this works. Therefore the confessions won't explain all this perfectly but they can act as guardrails to prevent us getting off track and into incorrect doctrines.
Why don't you try to write up a free will confession and see if you can make the logic match all the verses found in scripture. If you try it you will find that you cannot pray for anyone to be saved because it's up to them, there can be no prophesy because the free will alternative choices can't possibly be known yet because they might change, and God can have no revivals, no opening of hearts, no times of one group verses another having many come to Christ. I'd actually like to see that.
The cross of Christ and His sin atonement and resurrection from our viewpoint happened in time and space, but to God, always has happened, so all sinners ever saved were on by that same very basis
The OT saints from Hebrews 11:13
According to [KATA] the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen [V 1 Faith is] died these all, not obtaining the promises
At the time Jesus walked the earth they were dead according to the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.
From Gal 3 beginning at verse 23 YLT
Before the coming of the [substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the [substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith about to be revealed, so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by [the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith we may be declared righteous, and the [substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we, for ye are all sons of God through the [substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith in Christ Jesus, for as many as to Christ were baptized did put on Christ;
Question
Now that the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen, the faith, has come are they dead in faith of dead in Christ?
According to [KATA] the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen [V 1 Faith is] died these all, not obtaining the promises
At the time Jesus walked the earth they were dead according to the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.
From Gal 3 beginning at verse 23 YLT
Before the coming of the [substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the [substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith about to be revealed, so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by [the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith we may be declared righteous, and the [substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we, for ye are all sons of God through the [substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen] faith in Christ Jesus, for as many as to Christ were baptized did put on Christ;
Question
Now that the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen, the faith, has come are they dead in faith of dead in Christ?