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No one can show where the Bible teaches that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins because it's not in there. But that Jesus was a ransom is in there. That being the case, I'll go with scripture and the early church.

It certainly doesn't say that Jesus' death "paid the penalty" for our sins. It does say that Jesus came to give His life as a ransom for many. The word "redeem" is also used, which means "to buy back". That's Biblical. Penal substitution is not.

Will you all still be going to church, or will you stop going there, too, for a while?

I appreciate all the good responses. I do wish, though, that we could discuss things without attacking each other.

Every Protestant supposedly believes Sola Scriptura, even though that belief has produced many different denominations. And yet with all those denominations, they all still hold to a Western soteriology, along with the RCC. Amazing, huh?

Good, since you have contributed nothing helpful. I bet all your views are Western-influenced, and I bet you either don't realize it, or admit it, or even understand why that is. Everybody claims the Bible as their source, so don't you wonder why virtually everybody in the West has a certain...

How do you understand "Pauline justification"?

I, like many others, observe, question, interpret, and apply -- and come to different conclusions. That's the reason for the different denominations. So, see, you have not correctly discerned my position.

I couldn't agree more. Even the Bible was written within the context of a certain culture. The West interprets the Bible through an Augustinian lens. That is true of Roman Catholicism and Protestantism. I am decidedly anti-Augustinian. I wonder if I may be too Eastern in my thinking to fit...

My feelings exactly.

I am decidedly Eastern in my thinking, and so it's been rather shocking to my system to be exposed to Western thinking as I have been. Seems very foreign to me. I don't think I can ever get used to or accept Western soteriology.

Unfortunately, not true. Every denomination believes that their doctrines are what the Bible teaches.

Waste of a good mind not to know where your beliefs came from. And it's not sufficient to say the Bible. All churches and denominations and their members say and believe that, but those beliefs have all been influenced by a particular soteriology, even though they may not and probably are not...

JonC, thank you for beautifully explaining the differences, and the consequences of the beliefs.

Problem is, everyone disagrees on what the Bible says and means. It's very helpful to know where beliefs come from and why. I bet most Protestants don't even know that they still share an awful lot with Roman Catholicism, even after the Reformation.

No problem.

I want to start this by comparing and contrasting a few theological positions held in the West and East: Western: Sin: inherited -- fallen nature/guilt total depravity crime/lawbreaking Eastern: Sin: inherited -- fallen...

I'm not questioning God's goodness. I am questioning this particular interpretation of God's nature.

Okay. Understood.

Yes, but I didn't say that's what I believe. I said that's what others seem to believe who accept what happened to Job and those he lost.