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I remain firmly committed to this...

I don't understand the question. I see verse 7 speaking of men's inability to submit to God's law. I see nothing about grace, gospel, or man's inabilities when God appeals for us to repent of breaking the law. Yet, even at that time what was the means for salvation? "Abraham believed and it...

You're right...I overstated for a point. But can you define 'inherent' for us and explain how God doesn't have control over: 1. The 'inherent' consequences of the fall as it relates to man's natural abilities OR 2. The "inherent" inability of His revelation for those fallen Is that...

That was actually a quote taken from Jeremiah 9 which states, "but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD." So, you can debate the Lord on...

same thing...the reason you need 'effectual grace' is because you presume 'inherent' disability. Yet, you won't face what 'inherent' actually means in your SOVEREIGN worldview where all that exists if OF GOD AND FOR GOD. I guess God was gone the day that mother nature decided the...

I stand by this....

And you honestly can't see the CLEAR distinction between the 'command' to follow every jot and tittle of the entire mosiac law and God's 'command' to those who have reached the end to come to him for healing and rest? Really? Why do you think Paul refers to it as an 'appeal' and an 'offer.'...

Do you mean like your whole system depends on inherent inability in man? Ironic how that word 'inherent' comes back around to bite you, huh? God decides what is 'inherent' and what isn't. Own it.

This post is about God's purposes in saving man. I made that clear. But since you bring it up...God, in his grace, does share his glory with man. He is really awesome like that. "not of yourselves" means "not of yourselves" and I don't believe those being helped by the powerful...

Oh brother....now I'm remembering why I put you on ignore earlier... wow. :rolleyes:

God's Command: "Be perfect on every point of the law. Never sin, ever ever ever." God's Appeal: "Come unto me all who are weak and heavy laden and I will give you rest." Anyone who can't recognize the difference in those two cannot be reasoned with on this matter IMHO.

And here in lies the problem. You equate the revelation of Law with the revelation of Grace, period. End of discussion. Sorry, but until you can acknowledge the CLEAR and OBVIOUS Biblical distinction between LAW and GRACE we have no foundation on which to continue our discussions.

The strength of one's argument is not typically reflected in the part addressed, but the part ignored... I'd like you to address the comments above, please.

Not if you believe in provisional atonement, as explained above. Showing one mercy does not equal certain salvation in a system that doesn't presume irresistible grace. As discussed before, even those without that revelation are without excuse according to Paul. Don't give them their excuse...

I could not agree more. Now read my signature line again and see my rebuttal. Here we go round the mulberry bush the mulberry bush the mulberry bush...all the live long day. :1_grouphug:

Semantics. We are talking about God's purpose...that should be a given. And whose fault is that? Paul says men are without excuse, but your system gives them the excuse back by suggesting that some were born hated by God and not granted what was needed. The scripture teaches that God patiently...

The fact they are sinners in need of a savior and hell bound is a given fact, yes. Its a given fact that God is perfectly just to condemn all men for breaking the law, yes. BUT, here is the million dollar question. DOES GOD CHOOSE TO FINALLY CONDEMN ALL MEN TO ETERNAL HELL AND SEPARATION...

The purpose of God in sending any particular light is significant. God's purpose in sending the law: To reveal man's inability to attain righteousness by law through works, and thus realize they need a gracious savior. In other words, the law might lead them to look for someone who says...

Biblicist, can you define what you mean by "post-defacto" way of escape? According to most scholars, both Cal and Arm types, there has always been only one way of salvation, which is by grace through faith. Please explain what you mean.

What do you mean? ITS ALL ABOUT THAT! Salvation is from an eternal hell and separation from God. I thought it was a given that we are born sinful and in need of a savior who is on our way to hell. We are talking about SALVATION...that is what soteriology is all about. Total inability to do...