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Brother, you just keep repeating yourself. I don't feel like you are engaging with my points so I'll leave you with the last word. I know, I know, feel free to take a lap and pretend you ran me off with your superior debating skill if it makes you feel better...I've just grown tired of the...

I think those without the Tulip colored glasses on can clearly see the point of the illustrations. If you genuinely cannot see the application as it relates to our perspectives please let me know and I will attempt to lay it out more clearly.

which you are presuming is a determined self...that was my point. No, as I have said elsewhere. Reasons are just that...REASONS...reasonings of the will. If reasons made determinations then they would be called determiners. They are reasonings, nothing more. A determiner makes determinations...

The two accusations I hear most from the Calvinistic types against non-Calvinists are: (1) You lesson the Sovereignty of God and (2) you have too high of a view of man. But I contend, and will attempt to illustrate, that just the opposite is true!!! Our view of God's sovereignty is greater...

EXACTLY!!! The two accusations I hear most from the Calvinistic types against non-Calvinists are: 1. You lesson the Sovereignty of God and 2. You have too high of a view of man But just the opposite is true!!! I contend that our view of God's sovereignty is greater in its scope than theirs...

It is about coming to Christ by faith and receiving eternal life...but its about that in the CONTEXT of HIS AUDIENCE being UNABLE to come to HIM because they are BEING CUT OFF/HARDENED, while a preselect few are being drawn/enabled to be the remnant from Israel who are to take the message of...

Yes...we agree so far... Where does it say that in the text, because all I see is 'Gentiles will listen' and in Romans 11 it warns them NOT to allow their hearts to grow hardened or they would also be 'cut off' but it never states that they are nationally destined to be cut off as Israel is at...

Well, we will need to explain that to Paul when we get to heaven because he clearly had no problem drawing the STARK and CLEAR distinction between the Jew and the Gentile at this time: " 'Go to this people (ISRAEL) and say, "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever...

Well I guess that depends on where you stand regarding the Lordship controversy. It's strange for a Calvinist to support the idea that someone could be saved while rejecting God's call to follow Him. The call to follow Christ is the call to salvation. There is not a call to salvation and then...

Absolutely correct! :thumbsup: And that right there is what separates Luke and I so drastically on this point. I readily admit that God COULD have chosen to be the big puppet-master in the sky who is just putting on a big production of His determined will. He is certainly able to 'play...

Its both...but ANYWAAAAY... Huh? I'm agreeing with Paul's interpretation of the passage that 'it is not too difficult for you,' remember? Why are you saying that my interpretation contradicts Paul? Are you saying it IS too difficult for them? ...well I guess you would since you believe in...

No, my argument is that one's call to follow Christ (in whatever capacity) would result in eternal life. You are attempting to separate the call of God to follow with the call of salvation/eternal life. That is not a separation afforded by the text. The call to follow him is a call to...

Indeed...especially if that attempt is a clear violation of God's revelation and impugning His holy nature. According to scripture, God doesn't even TEMPT men to evil, yet in your system he determines not only the temptation, but the desire, motive, will, nature, and ultimate choice to fall...

His 'free-self' or his 'determined-self?' See what you are doing? You are presuming that the SELF couldn't have been created to be free, which is question begging. You have to PROVE that the SELF couldn't have been created free. I don't have that burden on me, because I've gladly admitted...

I'd also add the OT quotes: 11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have...

I have to respond to this one. My view that God's external means have an internal impact can't be disproven by presenting texts which show that God will impact people internally, because its an argument from silence. It presumes that means aren't being used, when clearly we know that God DOES...

But the fact that it IS mentioned shouldn't be ignored, either...which is what you are essentially doing by discounting even the possibility that the given context of John 6, where most of Israel is being blinded temporarily in their rebellion while a preselect few of Israel (apostles) are being...

"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels." -2 Tim. 2:23 This verse could apply to those who interrupt an honest, cordial conversation about the sovereignty of God as it relates to the responsibility of man with unfounded accusations of...

Nope...but from your affirmation of what the Rev stated

His existence is based on something else, but what precludes that his choice must be based on something else?