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Because no one can define, measure or explain it. That is mysterious. And that it a fact, not just my opinion...unless of course you can produce the study that fully defines how the human will works? Either you can presume the will is pre-determined to do what it does, even sinful stuff, by...

AMEN!...but we could spend half the day talking about how one group of steroid filled men moved a pig skin better than another on a striped field of grass for half a day and not one of them would say 'boo.'

Or we can discuss people who like to get on discussion forums, created for the very purpose of discussing these questions, only to criticize the topic, question other's character and belittle people, as if their comments are somehow more post worthy than the one's they are critiquing. It's just...

I suppose if YOU, LUKE, made something, you would determine all these things, but you are presuming that about our infinite, omnipotent God on the basis that is what you would do? We are talking about what OUR GOD COULD DO, supposing He wanted to...and you've conclusively decided that He just...

My post #39 posted right before your #40 did on the last page and I address much of what you said there...

Then everything I said in response would also apply to you... sad.

Where are you getting this? Is it just something you think must be true because you can't imagine it otherwise? Or is there a particular verse which teaches that God really makes every decision ever made and we are merely reactionary creatures doing as we were predetermined to do by God? Ok...

I asked 'how so' and that is what you ignored, proving that you either don't know because just making stuff up, or you're not interested in actually engaging me in a debate. If you commit a fallacy, like you did in the last post and continue to do, I point it out and explain exactly why its a...

What's wrong with that? It's otherwise known as 'self-determination'...the cause of a choice is the chooser. There is nothing illogical about that. It's just mysterious to us as to how the will functions. It's not able to be defined or measured, and thus it remains mysterious, much like much...

For those reading along here is a summary of this law: Now, can you put 2 and 2 together to show us how this law necessitates the impossibility of an infinite, omniscient Divine Being forming a creature with the ability to make choices that the Divine has not determined? Are you attempting to...

And yet you once again avoid the question I clearly asked several times, proving once again that the strength of one's argument is not typically revealed in the part that he opponent addresses, but in the part that he ignores. I'll restate it: "Can you provide a definition or explanation of...

If He causes it then its not uncaused, right? So, if he caused you to have the ability to make choices that you alone cause, then your choice (even if its free) is not uncaused.

That is not even close to addressing my question... You do know there are different views of logic and reason, right? Surely you don't believe that your form and application of logic is the only one that exists, do you? You act as if proving that logic is necessary and that God is logic...

So God's choices are caused by nothing? His choices are uncaused choices? They must be if self-determination is the same thing as "an uncaused choice." I think you mean that His choices are not caused by anyone except Him, which is what a self-determined choice IS. Determiners make...

You know I mean 'contra-causally free' choices. Choices made by the creature, not the creator. No, I'm saying that they, the choosers, are the cause of their choices, in the same manner that God is the cause of His choices...but you know that because I've told you that countless times. You...

Yet you are... It's absurd to discuss whether we believe God has the ability to create people with the power to make "free" choices? I'll be sure to pass that on to the host of theologians throughout all of history who have discussed and wrote about such matters. Glad you are here to set us...

What kind of logic are you referring to? Syllogistic logic, Propositional logic, Predicate logic, Modal logic, Informal reasoning, Mathematical logic,Philosophical logic, Computational logic, or what? And what is the logical formulation which necessitates the impossibility of an infinite...

Thanks for joining in the "absurdity" with us. Again, thank you for joining with us lowly ones on this pay grade... Oh, surprise, surprise, instead of discussing the topic he resorts to ad hominem instead... Oh, can you please tell us on what pay grade of absurdity do those exist who resort to...

Who, if not God, determines this? You? Is what is possible determined by the limits of your imagination? No one thus far, that I've seen, has attempted to claim that God has created such beings. But are you able to distinguish between the attributes you listed and the attribute of...

Right. :thumbs: