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This is a first, truly. I first thought of cracking a light-hearted joke on this but then got hit with this sick feeling of what a doctrinal system can do to one's interpretation. Can you get your fellow calvinists to agree with you on this? But Matt 23:37 does not have it answering the Why -...

Since this has not been implied here nor is it being discussed, let's save it for later or another thread. Could you commit to responding to the following so we can move forward on the OP, if you are still interested in this discussion - 1. Do you believe God sovereignly (passively)...

I do not see any conflict myself - but now that you do, I'm willing to help clarify. This is the crux of the logical fallacies that ail both calvinism and arminianism - why do you think logical inversion is valid? God predestining the elect alone to salvation does not logically imply God...

I see this as progress. We do find agreement here that God doesn't and cannot desire against His own sovereign choices. To avoid the contradiction I've raised, you assert that God does not desire but rather weeps in Matt 23:37 Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets...

You've raised this more than once and I've asked the same questions for clarification. When you say "predestination refers not to the lost sinner state", you're describing Single Predestination - not double predestination which calvinism upholds. Again, to make sure of your position, consider...

Sure, I'll clarify..I'm exclusively addressing this to the calvinists adopting their terms. I am arguing only against "predestined reprobation/condemnation of man". I do not even say there is no such thing as double predestination. I see it in some sense in the elect and non-elect angels -...

This is a nice reference. So when was the door shut on the non-elect by God - before the foundation of the world, before man's good or evil OR after man's unbelief in God? Because we have God in Scriptures revealing His desire for the non-elect to enter in the door and live. This would be...

Nope. Just realizing my memory is fallible :) I did like your post at the time, though - that hasn't lapsed my mind...

This is True. But I'm staying away from focusing on what's required of man - simply focusing on what God thinks, decrees, desires, does etc. by revelation. The focus here is simply that God revealed He has pleasure in the wicked turning away and living. How did you come to this conclusion? If...

I'm taking a breather here. If a heretic walked into church and started spouting arguments about how Jesus is not God, you know how we'd normally respond to that guy, right? If at all we engage with the guy, there definitely wouldn't be brotherly compassion - with the utmost courtesy, we'd...

Yes, this is true and I agree. But has my question been about man's free choices? Have I not asked about God alone and His sovereign decrees and desires within Himself? Strawman? My question is not about man or what man is owed or about how he is treated/judged etc. It's only about the portrait...

I've quoted your entire post to show (apart from a few minor phrases that I'd word differently) that I agree with the full force of your post. But this is my issue - you are addressing a strawman. Your post seems written to the question - how can God bring about destruction on Israel after...

You'll have to be precise here given the context of this discussion - are the others left in the realm of death by God's decree or not? While God intentionally predestines the elect, does God also look at the non-elect in the realm of death and say "Yes, I have made my decision to choose to...

And this usually gets followed with how I have done so. Else, how can I stand corrected or defend myself? Practically speaking, does anyone ever post a thread here thinking, "Oh let me attack that strawman given I have no understanding on this topic at all"? The onus is on you to prove this is...

Again clarifying your misunderstanding, I'm not saying God desires during Matt 23 that the non-elect Israel repent and live - they've filled their measure of iniquity and His wrath is already turned against them then. Matt 23:37 however has on record that God did desire this throughout the OT...

So as I said, calvinism upholds double predestination - essentially God counselling/decreeing a committed decision over the non-elect to be condemned. In accordance with this, there should be no opposing desires of God's against what He Himself has here predestined by decree - no desires that...

Sure, am always happy to explain so as to avoid confusion. I'm focusing on simply God and 2 very specific actions of God along with their sequencing - His desire and counsel/decree. God's desire is His want that pleases Him when fulfilled. God's counsel/decree is His committing to a decision...

Who are these "some"? How do you define apostasy? Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the...

Do you actually believe this word for word? Because you've only described Single Predestination here - God in love elects and predestines those to be saved but does not do anything towards the rest. Do you believe that God, at the same time that He lovingly elects, also looks over at the...

I did not object to God being unjust. Yes, they receive their just reward and yes, God is sovereign. So why are we even talking about this? I am questioning the calvinist sequence that leads to God being inconsistent - not being unjust. Inconsistent as seen in double-mindedness. Calvinism has...