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All, This has been an interesting experience. It has been my desire all along to present my views in charity and kindness. I hope I have lived up to this goal! At this point, suddenly, it turns out that my Internet connection will cease tomorrow. So I will not be visiting with any frequency...

DHK, I was just re-reading some of our earlier exchange and I see that I opened a comment to you intending to say "Hello, DHK" but I left out the "o" at the end of the word "Hello." I just want to let you know that if I could go back and correct that, I would. And it was most definitely not a...

steaver, I can hardly even follow your posts, much less understand the points you are trying to make. I have never said anything about not loving the Lord. Yet you say things like this: When utilyan said what he said (a comment which you attribute, apparently, to the both of us), my initial...

steaver, I have never said anything about not loving Christ. As I said, since this conversation began with you misrepresenting someone else's views, it's unfortunate to see that you continue doing so. Further, you continue with your remarks which are mostly directed at people and not ideas...

BobRyan- I am not talking about the Jewish Teachers of the Law. I am talking about the Magisterium which Christ established. These are two entirely separate bodies with entirely different modes of authority. In the case of the prior, they sat in Moses' Seat and Christ instructed people to...

BobRyan- I am not sure what you were trying to say to me above. You wrote this: I am just reminding you of the fact that those passages of Scripture do not teach Sola Scriptura. You continue insisting that they do, apparently, despite the fact that I have pointed out why they don't and you...

I am posting this to correct a formatting error in i of iv to Martin above: There, you (Martin) wrote: "The Bible is what God has given us, and this is one place (not the only one, alas!) where the Church of Rome goes so dangerously wrong." My wrongly formatted response should have read as...

iv of iv to Martin Though you may see this assessment as somehow being historically true, the truth of the matter is that all Christians believed that the bread and the wine ceased being bread and wine and instead became the very body and blood of the Lord. If the words of Our Lord recorded in...

iii of iv to Martin No. I'm not entirely wrong. For I affirm the priesthood of all believers. That's why when people complain about the Catholic Church not allowing "women priests" I ask them what they're talking about. Every female Catholic is a priest according to the priesthood of all...

ii of iv to Martin Martin, we could go into all of this. For I believe that there are plenty of ways these passages may be interpreted in a manner which does not see these references as rightly being assigned to the Catholic Church. For there are plenty of powers at work in the world who...

i of iv to Martin Martin, There is nothing "in the Scriptures" which suggests that we "learn about it all... from the Scriptures alone." This is the (ironically) unBiblical foundation of your Biblicism. Yes, indeed all the glory goes to God alone. And it is certainly "all of God, none of us"...

Imagine if you could go back in time, speak to St. Paul, and then come here to tell us about your conversation. It seems you might say something like this: "Herbert, I flat out asked St. Paul if faith in Jesus Christ was needed for salvation and he argued over and over, saying something like...

steaver, Adonia is right. From St. Thomas Aquinas: SINCE, however (as has already been said), the death of Christ is, so to say, the universal cause of human salvation, and since a universal cause must he applied singly to each of its effects, it was necessary to show men some remedies...

DHK, You're contradicting yourself again: You've insisted that salvation is based on "Faith Alone." Now you're saying it's based upon "relationship." Which one is, it? For "relationship" involves interaction, give and take, mutual offering and mutual reception... Herbert

steaver, What makes you think that I am not calm? I am cool as a cucumber. 8^) Though I can't tell whom God will receive in Heaven or whom He'll send to Hell, I can recognize this: sanc·ti·mo·ny (săngk′tə-mō′nē) n. Righteousness accompanied by an unwarranted attitude of moral or social...

steaver, You are misrepresenting the position which utilyan and I are presenting. What we are doing is denying the "alones" that are NOT found in Scripture, not placing them where they aren't found. Adonia, utilyan, and I, though our life experiences, our intellects, etc. are unique, share...

Martin- I will get back to the other things soon. But quickly: I don't see it that way, Martin. I am saying that fragmentation hasn't been able to destroy the Church's fundamental and essential unity for 2,000 years. So the fragmentation that takes place in the Church and despite which it...

BobRyan, I have responded to this claim. Your mistaken reading of these verses shouldn't be confused with what these verses are actually saying. Herbert

Martin, I will respond to everything you've said above. But I am heading out for a camping outing with my boys so, again, I'll be checking out for a couple days. Again, though, be assured, Lord willing, of my return! Very quickly, I just want to say something in response to this: It's...