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Before I engage further in this speculative venture, can you explain to me how God ever makes a choice or originates a thought? Having always known the outcome of his choices, how does he ever come to make the choice? And having always known every thought how does he ever come to originate...

Mark, I don't think of them as 'contradictions' but as a process. My relationship with my earthly dad started as more of a servant who feared his discipline and/or sought his payments. Now that I'm an adult, we golf together, share meals, and I help him around his house with chores he is too...

I've sent a PM to the offending party to kindly address personal matters privately, as called on by the forum rules (not to mention scripture). She has ignored this request thus far and continues with her public personal attacks, thus this thread must unfortunately be closed. I apologize to...

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but just to add to it, I'd say we must look at the 'shift' we see in the new testament in regard to this subject as well in order to get a full picture of how we are to relate. When Jesus says, "I no longer call you servants, but friends..." in John...

You have a good point. There probably does need to be a good balance of both. However, scripture does teach that 'love drives out fear,' and that has been my own personal experience. I still feel like I have a healthy reverence type of fear of God, but I don't feel scared of Him or his wrath...

AresMan, Thank you for debating the topic rather than derailing and attacking others personally. It is refreshing. :)

Yes, and the reason for the free moral choice is a free moral chooser. You can no better explain the 'reason' for man's free moral choices as you can explain the 'reason' for God's choices. We simply appeal to mystery and credit the choice to the chooser, period. Anything else is speculative...

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize someone had a gun to your head forcing you to click on threads and respond. :rolleyes: Admittedly there is some overlap in our discussions, but many threads are derailed by things like this and the questions of the OP are buried and never fully vetted...

Great analogy! When I was a kid I did what my father asked because I sought the reward of an allowance OR fear the belt of his disciple (or both). Now, when my dad needs my help neither of these factors matter. I do it because I love him. He is my friend. I believe this is what God seeks...

Fear is being scared. When you realize: 1. That you are a guilty sinner 2. Sin is really serious because it offends the infinite nature of God and thus demands an infinitely serious punishment 3. That you will stand before a perfectly just judge who must condemn the guilty. You will be...

Who decided what the consequences of the Fall would be?

:thumbs: Very true.

Random is just another word for 'mysterious,' meaning not fully in view and thus unable to be measured, understood, explained or defined fully. I believe she is 'self-determined' in that she determines on which desire she will act upon. She determines her acts, not God. (i.e. God makes her...

Your answer was, "the tragic consequence of the fall is passed to all of us." and "yes...it was God..." but then when inthelight asked for clarity as to who caused the punishment to be total depravity you accused him of 'blaming God.' You seem to be missing the point of the question...

Guys, putting my moderator hat on for minute. I've noticed that it is becoming more common to rename other posters as a subtle method of insult. Please don't do this. I know Aaron started this by renaming me "Scandal," but I gave him permission to do that as it is the root meaning of my...

Maybe not always, but you have done so to me throughout this thread. I think it would be the right thing for you to edit your own posts. If you have something personal to discuss with me, then you should do that through a PM. I'd be glad to talk to you about your perceptions of me there. But...

Question, or "ATTACK"??? Most of those quotes you referred to were in response to a Calvinist "ATTACKING" (otherwise known as "debating" me). Ann, I've never denied my motive here was to debate soterological differences, as that is the purpose of this forum, but I have done so cordially...

Aaron, there is nothing more 'passive' than the surrender humble surrender of a broken man. And if you think the story of the prodigal son tells us nothing about soteriology then you'd be the first, as I don't think you could find a Christian scholar in the world who would make such a claim. Of...

If you assume your view of God is accurate (question begging) then yes, you are correct, we'd be blaming God for being in sovereign control over our natures being totally depraved from birth. Now, why do you deny that? Don't you all believe He is sovereign over all things? Ok, then tell us...

One more piece of information that may be helpful to understand: When I joined this forum there used to be a Cal/Arm only section, but the other theology section virtually died out because almost every point of theological disagreement lead back to this issue in one way or another and most of...