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When I first heard this accusation I knew it wasn’t accurate, but I also understood it was being made in anger and ignorance, so I didn’t feel the need to specifically point out the inaccuracy. After all, I’m well aware that most of my discussions on this particular forum are centered on...

HeirofSalvation already schooled you on this point so I'll just let this one go... :thumbs: Just one problem. The absence of the gospel being represented in this particular parable means the same for you as it does for me, since we both affirm God's means of the gospel appeal (unless...

Yeah, to debate theology. We've been over this. That is kind of the reason for the existence of this particular forum. Soteriology encompasses a very broad range of topics, and is certainly the major issue of disagreement among baptists...thus the D-E-B-A-T-E. As Webdog mentioned there are...

This only goes to prove you have yet to even grasp the views of your opponent. My original question about man's influence upon his own nature directly relates to the nature of God's appeal and man's response to it. It all has to do with how man is affected by his response to God's revelation...

Annsni, I'll ask you nicely to stop making this personal. That is against the rules. At worse, my agenda is to debate theology on a theological debate forum, so sue me. What you see as an 'attack' on Calvinism others view as a defense of truth. In the same manner, there are many Calvinists...

Maybe this is the one thing God is not sovereignly in control of in their system? Maybe he closed his eyes for just that moment when men sinned and 'mother nature' accidentally 'reprogrammed' man's nature and God had nothing to do with it??? :confused: No, you are right. This is one of the...

So, it is your contention that Calvinists affirm God is just as sovereignly in control over the development of a man's new nature as He is the original fallen nature? That would only be a contradiction if a Calvinist denied God's sovereign control over one or the other...oh, yeah, that is...

Adoption is a process. We really don't have the perfect tense in our language to connote the idea of past, present and future all in one, but that is the picture of a believers adoption. It is not complete until the redemption of our bodies, as the verse you referenced teaches. (Rm 8:23)...

Does he? Because if indeed he does understand this then wouldn't it make much more since for him to say something like: "Our view doesn't really blame God for man's fallen nature because that is the one thing God just isn't sovereign over. That result from the fall was just an accident. God...

Random is just another word for mysterious, which is very definition of a libertarian free choice. Self-determination is just that...made by ones' self, and not anyone else. To suggest, as some do, that one's inborn God-given nature dictates the free creatures desires and subsequent choices in...

Despite my differences with jbh28, I will say he provides a good balance to those who tend toward hyperism on this forum. :thumbs: I do wish he'd would answer the question of the THREAD JUST STARTED....

:thumbs: You're on a roll Willis! It amazes me how one can conclude a man is born like a corpse in regard to a positive response, but yet has the ability to rebel and reject God's powerful gospel truth with all the life in the world. :confused:

If we are born enemies of God, which we both agree that we are, why ASSUME (as you do) that a message sent for the purpose of making an appeal for reconciliation is insufficient to accomplish just that purpose? You seem to think it wasn't within the Prodigal son's ability to humble himself...

You are not understanding correctly. We are ourselves aren't blaming God for their 'skin' (representing their nature) for we believe their nature is "FREE." (contra-causally free that is). We are blaming YOUR VIEW OF GOD for the nature, because IN YOUR VIEW man does what he does according to...

And there is where you beg the question, by making the unfounded leap that one being 'corrupted' equals being 'totally unable' to even respond to a powerful appeal sent by God for his enemies to be reconciled to Him. As to our previous exchanges...they all end the same way. You question beg...

:applause:

I'd be interested to hear JBH's answer to the question of the OP... :praying:

Good link Heir...a very valid point.

I did answer you, but you won't deal with the scripture I presented. I agreed that we are born corrupted, but I made the argument that only those who have grown hardened are said to be 'unable' to 'see, hear, understand , and repent. Now deal with those passages.

But even Calvinists teach that men aren't born as bad as they could be. There is a hardening process. And given the verses I presented above, which you conveniently ignored, it appears that prior to growing hardened one could hear, see, understand and turn. That while still a child they are...