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That may depend on what you mean by 'bad' but the reality of Hell is an AWFUL truth that should cause us all to grieve. I don't believe anyone here is attempting to say that hell is not real, if that is what you mean. False dichotomy. It's not about 'avoiding' it. Its about realizing and...

Aaron, Now that you have established that you really believe that Satan made Adam sin maybe you could explain what made Satan sin? Was he created corrupt? I think your deterministic worldview falls apart here. God doesn't create people or angels with corruption. He creates them with...

Thank you. :thumbsup:

Which takes us right back around on this merry-go-round to what/who corrupted Adam. "Satan made me do it!" Bad fruit, Aaron. Bad tree??? Satan made him do it? :thumbsup:

Oh, yes, I'm saved so of course I'm glad. But on the other hand, I feel as Paul did in that I might wished myself accursed for the sake of the masses who are going to hell. The idea saddens and troubles me deeply. As I said to Amy, I just find the biblical teaching of an eternal hell much...

Aaron, I think its interesting how you presume to know what I do or don't understand about a believer's union with Christ based upon my asking you a simple followup question. A question you refuse to answer. Based upon your responses it appears that you are saying that you are a bad tree that...

Amy, I just find the biblical teaching of an eternal hell much easier to accept when accompanied by the biblical teaching that those who go there do so DESPITE God's choice, not because of it.

Did I say that? I just said that those who end up in hell would disagree with that statement. Wouldn't you?

Oh, and in case you haven't figured it out, this line of questions will lead us right back to that same old "peripheral issue" that you continually dismiss. We both believe that God gives bad trees what they need to become good trees, but you just think God's enabling is irresistibly applied to...

So, when you sin is it because Christ didn't resist the temptation for you? By the way, I didn't make an argument, I asked a question, which you failed to answer. Are you a good tree or not?

Now that you are saved are you considered a 'good tree' or a 'bad tree?'

You sent this reply in about 15 seconds after I posted. I think you will notice that you didn't read it very carefully as I clearly spoke of God's enabling. Now, to that reply I could have merely said, "Duoh..." and had bricks falling, but instead I asked you nicely to read it again. Now...

The billions burning for eternity in hell might disagree. :tear:

So, its not Adam's fault that he sinned? It sure sounds like you are arguing that Adam has as much control over whether or not he sinned as a piece of iron left outdoors has over whether or not it rusts? Is that your argument?

I think you are reading a 'tone' or 'intent' into my words which is not present. I never called you 'stupid' or 'ignorant' and I don't believe you are either of those. I simply answered your question with scripture and when you replied saying that you agreed with that text I pointed out the...

So, its the ol' "Satan made me do it" defense, huh?

Guy, please read my post more slowly and carefully. I think you will see that I acknowledged God gracious enabling work.

Guy, the part of Paul's answer that your system doesn't seem to correctly address is where he writes, "if you offer yourselves," and "although you used to be slaves of sin, you obeyed..." They did the offering of themselves, not God. They did the obeying, not God. Now, granted, God enabled us...

Where does the scripture say that? Here is the account of the fall; can you point out the part of the curse where God 'removes their free agency?' In fact, God said, "...man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil," which seems to indicate MORE understanding of our freedom to...

Are they fixed BECAUSE he foreknows them, or does he foreknow them because they freely happened? See the difference?