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:thumbsup: He seemed to think you were asking how God's get glory from choosing, when it is clear you were asking about how God gets glory from causing (by irresistible grace/regeneration) a select number of people to choose him. It's the difference in finding a wife who genuinely loves...

So, you don't affirm the typical Calvinistic doctrine which teaches that one must first be born again to come to faith and repentance?

Reductio ad absurdum (yet another fallacy) :rolleyes:

Ok, let me stop you right there. If they are all born totally depraved then why would it be necessary for God to 'specifically arrange' anything to 'preoccupy' them so as to prevent them from coming to repentance? They are BORN unable to come according to Calvinism, so why does he make such...

Mark, Being wealthy leads one to pride and often being self-sufficient. They don't feel that they need any help. This is what affects them negatively making it more difficult for them to 'humble themselves so as to be exalted' as scripture teaches. "You can't serve two masters..." This is...

That is debatable but inconsequential because the result is the same. Either way, the Lord said of him, "You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you." And... "You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above...

True, I do spend a lot of time debating Calvinists, so I'm quite familiar with it. :) Right. So, you should know better than to continually treat me (and others) with disrespect and distain. That is a bad fruit that you often produce here, so what are we to conclude about you? And KNOWING...

Yes. And it seems to me that their concept of what God actually does in unchangeably "ordaining/decreeing" sin is worse in regard to culpability than "authoring" would be. I mean which is worse and why?

Calvinists pride themselves on making sure ALL the glory goes to God, but they do so at the expense of actual biblical revelation. They reason that God's glory is better displayed through their concept of deterministic sovereignty rather than than His holiness (no hint of evil). Where as we...

Based on this response I suspect you don't know what non-Calvinistic scholars actually teach about Romans 9 or the other 'proof texts' used to support Calvinism, right?

Eternal security is REALLY what predestination is all about. God has predetermined to conform and adopt whosoever believes in Him. He seals us with the promised HS when we come to faith and we can rest assured he will save us because He has predestined to save everyone who has faith IN CHRIST.

Think about? If you think I would have any issue with that verse then you don't know much about what I believe.

Winman, Of course you are right on this point. Likewise, the signs and wonders that Christ said would have caused the ancient cities to repent wouldn't have really done a thing if Calvinism is true. (ref. Matt 11:21) And the parables that Jesus used to prevent the Scribes and Pharisees from...

It's been a while since I've read Norm's stuff, but from what I remember he makes some good points regarding 'self-determiniation.' I enjoy Adam Clarke's commentaries. And even though I may not agree with every point that is made I believe there is much wisdom in reading scholars from both...

Apparently that is because I'm a swine that just can't quite grasp your precious pearls. If only God loved me as much as he loves you and granted me the intelligence He has granted to you. I can only hope He makes me able to be as humble and smart as you are. I love you bro. and I know enough...

Of course you would say that because to say what we KNOW would undermine your insistence that free will doesn't exist. Sin was found IN SATAN. He sinned, by HIS own choice. Satan corrupted Satan. Just admit that and appeal to mystery so you can stop with all this non-sense. And I'm fine...

So, are you telling me that Jesus' teaching regarding how we are to beware of and recognize false teachers should be applied to how we are to understand Adam's choice to sin? Read the context: Jesus is teaching us how we can know good teachers from bad ones. You will know them by their...

You misunderstood. I was not suggesting that you said hell was not real. I was replying to your comment which seemed to suggest that I was denying or 'avoiding' the reality of hell. On this point, we agree. :)

Some might believe that, but I do not. That is not the scholarly approach of most respected non-Cal theologians, but unfortunately is what most Christians today think is the only alternative to the Calvinistic answers. It's really no wonder so many are becoming Calvinistic. The problem with...

Agreed. Agreed (Depending on what you mean by 'free.' "A choice to act is free if it is an expression of an agent's categorical ability of the will to refrain or not refrain from the action"...i.e., contra-causal freedom.) Agreed. I think in principle we agree on these matters, but the point...