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That may depend on how one defines 'pure,' but clearly sin can most certainly come from a FREE person without a sin nature who is influenced by an invitation to do evil. Just as repentance can most certainly come from an enemy with a sin nature who is freed by an divine invitation to be reconciled.

Let me put this another way: Suppose you have a dad in your congregation who is having a problem with his rebellious teenage daughter. He knows that you too have a daughter, so comes to you for counsel. He tells you that he gets up every morning a slips a mind altering drug into his...

Well, I'll give you that, but I was speaking more generally in our discussion over these many different threads. My contention is that the start of this thread is a type of "you too" fallacy by attempting to equate the Calvinistic problem (which makes God appear to be the author of evil) and...

:thumbs: Well said, and a good note to end a thread that has gone over our limit. :)

What needs to be 'exegeted' here Guy? I agree with Ares regarding God's 'ordination' or 'determination' to lay down his own life for the redemption of the world. I just argued that proving God had a uniquely supernatural role in the redemption of man by choosing to lay down his own life in no...

But, with all due respect, even if that point is conceded it in no way equates the Calvinistic problem with the Arminian problem, as you argue. It is called the "You Too Fallacy" when one attempts to divert attention onto a similar, but not equal, problem of the opposition without providing any...

Sure it seems that way to you. It seems like you do that from my perspective. That is the nature of this disagreement. Now, do you have an argument or is this it?

I believe what I stated can be substantiated by the text. Why? Do you have an argument to present?

Luke, I'd like to better understand how you draw any real or meaningful distinction between God's 'planning' or 'causing' evil and his 'authoring' it? One seems as bad as the other to me. In fact, an author of a book seems much LESS CULPABLE than a creator who plans and causes evil. Why this...

You haven't defined what you mean by the word 'ordain,' so I'll answer it this way: I believe God determined (brought to pass with certainty) the death, burial and resurrection of Himself (HE laid down his own life). That is one of the unique aspects of this supernatural work of...

Yes. Augustine is the first records we have of the common mistakes of: 1. Overly individualizing the concept of divine election... 2. Interpreting predestination as being for particular individuals unto salvation; rather than for all those in Christ to be adopted and conformed. 3...

Any one want to address this? I honestly want to know the difference in the Calvinistic belief that God is 'sovereign over evil' or 'in control over evil' versus the claim that he is not the 'author of evil.' What is the clear distinction that makes being an 'author of evil' worse than God...

Do you mean like how you keep saying that the issue of irresistible grace (effectual calling) is a peripheral issue in our disagreement and then continue to argue against me as if I don't believe God plays any role in our salvation? This is your MO, Aaron. You minimize or ignore the ACTUAL...

:applause: Van wrote, "He [Skandelon] says God can know the future but that does not fix the future." Van ASSUMES that foreknowledge = predestination which begs the question. If this is the case why does scripture employee both words? If there is no distinction in God foreknowing...

First, you should know that many, if not most, of the founders of the SBC were "Reformed" theologically. So, instead of the word 'infiltrated' you may use the word 'resurgence.' Second, I don't think Calvinists are 'assaulting' anyone. Most are well meaning, loving, evangelistic...

JonC, you are an intelligent, articulate and reasonable fellow. It baffles me how some here can't (or more likely won't) acknowledge a clear distinction without making blatantly false overstatements in order to mischaracterize your view (i.e. 'in your view He dies for no one.'). It just goes...

I don't do this that often, but this post deserves it... :applause::applause::applause:

What about when God enables the fulfillment of the requirement, making the person without any excuse for his rejection? That is your (Owen's) error. You seem to presume that we don't believe, as you do, that God must enable our faith in Christ. Just because we believe that gracious provision...

Plus, can someone explain to me how an author who writes a book about some heinous evil is somehow worse (more culpable) than a Creator who first thinks of the evil intent (like the molestation and murder of a child), and then creates a world where that evil, that he thought of, will certainly...

Icon, To say that God ordains men to contradict his Law/Word through their own willful actions, and that he controls this for the ultimate good and glory of his eternal purpose, is to assert the absolute sovereignty of God over evil and yet preserve his wisdom, righteousness and holiness. That...