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I do not see how they can be the same, foreknowing someones libertarian free choice, vrs actually decreeing it.... The complete history and future of this world is already over/is present to God. So either way the drama has been played out...

Thats what I don't understand on what they say about that. If you looked at who would choose him, isn't that saying at one point God lacked knowledge which is impossible for God. But then they just say he is timeless.... :eek:

Pastor Bob, Tcass... I see both points, Pastor Bob is saying its not the "work" of them putting the blood on the doorpost, but the faith that the blood will cause the angel of death to passover. Correct? Therefore its not the doorpost that is US, it is the people inside the house. That now...

What about the defense of Conditional Election? "The drama is predestined but the actors are not"

I once knew a foreign exchange student, who didn't know english well....when he tried to explain things, he knew what he was trying to say but it just came out unclear...... Thanks for the memories. Again... why not exegesis some texts and prove all these "mean" Calvinists wrong?

What do you mean convince? I don't need convincing of a "doctrine"... It was only a luring topic starter. everyone matures in understanding of the Bible and what the texts say. Traditionally I was taught "Free will" so everything I read was on my basis of that. I am looking for exegesis of the...

I agree with all of them, I went into this with know prior knowledge of either side besides the tradition I was taught so when I read the bible I assumed free will and therefore read it into the bible, I never really thought about it. I actually got involved during a dispensational/covenant...

I have read it! I also have the Potters Freedom (James White) and Chosen by God (RC Sproul). Books are Great, but actual real live people I can talk to is better :D

I really enjoy your responses on these posts. I do accept all 5 points in essence. I'm just wanting to learn more about them.

Thank you, I was waiting for someone to pick this mumbo jumbo apart.

It was only a topic starter...... I know what I know....People may post what they want, and go from there.

Regarding John 6 and others, In a recent discussion with Non- Calvinists I was responded back to by this.... "I would posit that the context suggests that those who were drawn by the Father in the passage, were those who believed in Jesus prior to HIs first coming. Verse 45 reveals that they...

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

To Whom? We are grafted into the ONE olive tree. The promises become our promises. The Land is the whole WORLD.

You know him and scripture don't go well together. :)

Well yes the remnant was saved and is being saved in every generation including Paul. How did he reject them? I don't see your point. Romans 11:1 I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin.

No actually I don't. Sorry to disappoint you and your laughing. Im not laughing. Who brainwashed the ECF who believed it? Again i'm not arguing it. Im arguing against your method of "Im educated" 1 billion. Sorry Im dyslexic sometimes. 1.2. Not 2.1.

I am NOT standing up for it. You are CLEARLY missing my point. The point is you argue with linguistics and act like everything you believe is so simple. You said I was saying if it so natural why do so many not see it? If the literalness of Dispensationalism is so plain, why the 1800s? So...

Wow thanks for clarifying, that is not exactly the same. I would of never guessed. Sarcasm Alert Is the Sacramental Union that Lutherans hold to.....not "real presence"? even 30 percent of 2 billion is 600,000,000. Thats a lot of people who do not have the God Given figure of speech knowledge

1.2 Billion catholics 6 Million Lutherans 85 Million Anglicans. And yes I know not every single one believes it. "This is my Body This is my Blood" Figure of speech? Did 1800 years of the church, not know figures of speech until dispensationalism came about in the 1800s? Is it really all...