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Christos, I know you haven't been around here much so allow me to point you to a couple of more clarify threads regarding my views on this matter. Also, you might notice my 'edit' remarks regarding the word "really" as I anticipated this very rebuttal. I've argued with several more 'hard...

I meant that the distinction he (JesusFan) was attempting to draw didn't matter... What specifically did I say that contradicts that truth? :confused: You are not a very good mind reader because I've never pictured Calvinism as believing this. I know and have acknowledge countless times the...

I don't think so. I think the cross provided the means of reconciliation which comes through faith in Christ.

No, but many Calvinists don't affirm that Adam had a libertarian free will prior to the fall anyway, so I don't see that it matters. I don't understand the question. God's desire to save us doesn't mean He desires to save us irresistibly. It only means his desire is for us to come to faith and...

You're not following OldReg. Please reread my response more carefully. I'm trying to explain how you err by presuming a deterministic response is needed and I'm doing so by pointing to the choices of God (as an example). I don't expect you to be able to define the mind of God, in fact that IS...

The strongest points of one's argument are not typically reflected in the portion that his opponents address, but in the portions ignored...especially with statements such as "blah, blah, blah..." How can someone have the ability to respond to a message they have not heard? But I think what you...

You asked if, "Men possess the ability to believe the Gospel and respond by nature." But isn't the act of regeneration the process by which God changes the nature of man so as to give him the ability and will to respond by that new nature? Isn't it Calvinists who teach that we must become...

:applause: Some people just don't understand our actual points of contention. Thanks for pointing it out.

I understand that OldReg, I was summarizing. I was simply referring to the fact that in your system God is the one who determines what man's nature will be, in that He determined the punishment for the fall (a fallen totally depraved nature by which man is not able to come) and He determines...

True. You got me there. I was referencing Romans 3:20-21 though... This is where Paul shifts from the "no one is righteousness according to the law" into a righteousness (by faith) now being revealed to which the law testifies.

I responded to the first half and then got a phone call. Here is the rest... That is what free will is all about. Asking me to define what determined the man's will to say no is question begging at it worse because it assumes a deterministic response is necessary. This is the most common...

Isn't that what you believe, Aaron? The only caveat being that you believe the nature is one determined by God in such a way that the agents decisions could not have been other than what God predetermined them to be....for the non-elect the nature determines a negative answer and for the elect...

Correct. How can they unless they first hear the powerful Holy Spirit wrought gospel which isn't sent into all the world until AFTER Christ is raised up. That is when he 'draws all men to himself.' Sure. He took the initiative by sending his son, the apostles, the gospel, His Bride the...

Even Arminians affirm that God has used effectually persuasive means (blinding lights or big fish) to convince his preselected ordained messengers to take their message to the world. This is what sets them apart as uniquely authoritative after all. But, please understand; proof God has used...

Not true. We just affirm the power of the Holy Spirit wrought Gospel truth sent to bring reconciliation. You all think the power rests in a so called "irresistible calling" which is never expounded upon in the text.

That doesn't answer the question regarding why the unbelievers that Paul is speaking of in Romans 1 would be without excuse. And there is the perfect excuse. God: Why didn't you submit? Man: I could not. There is no better excuse. Instead the bible says, "Humble yourselves and you...

I love the way you ask questions. :laugh: Very entertaining...and I'm not being sarcastic, you really are one of the few people hear who makes me laugh at loud. Now, to your question about a "barrier." That is a great question. Those with "religious baggage" (such as the Jews at that...

As opposed to you who left long ago...oh wait, never mind. :laugh: Ok, if you are going to make a straw man accusation then be willing to defend it. You make more unfounded accusations then any human I've met. And keep in mind, your form of Calvinistic thought is not the only one being...

No, we have a similar problem, but not even close to being the same. There is a huge difference in the concept of God foreknowing and permitting free decisions of free moral creatures and the concept of God causally determining creatures (through 2nd/3rd causes etc) so as to carry out His...

See post #5 as I replied to this claim there... They use more placating words, but it amounts to the same. (notice my edit remarks regarding "really" where I anticipated this very objection) Like I said, he doesn't REALLY will them to come to Him...he doesn't give them what they need to believe...