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And in your view God clinches the deal of rebellion, right? Goes both ways, the difference is that in our view we can still give full praise for the Grace provided to all, knowing full well that those who rebelled did so in the face of a loving benevolent God sincerely holding out his hands to...

Thank you for acknowledging this important truth, you would be surprised how many people attempt to dismiss it when it should be a point of agreement for both camps. I understand what you are saying, but please allow me to clarify. Even though the historical context of that moment directly...

Yes, but WHY was it their state BEFORE he was sent? Because they had been exposed to God's revelations for years and have rebelled thus "BECOMING CALLOUSED." They aren't born like that. If they were, then what point would Paul possibly be making to say, "Otherwise they might see, hear...

Alrighty then, let's take this discussion to the Versions forum, okay?

First, anyone who has been on this forum for any length of time knows I've gone verse by verse through this chapter on several different occasions. Second, the question I posed reveals the historical context of the passage in consideration and was not intended to circumvent anything, or...

In approaching John 6, I believe it is first necessary to answer this very important question: Why can't Jesus' audience come to him? Possible answers: 1) Because God doesn't really salvifically love them and since they have been born in their totally depraved condition by which they really...

Well, actually history shows us that Calvinistic doctrine CAN, if it is taken to seed, become anti-evangelistic. But I do concede that the doctrine itself, in it true form, doesn't quell evangelism. I also don't think it necessarily promotes it more than non-Calvinism, which is what you seemed...

:thumbsup: Exactly my point.

You called Universalism "new" and that is what I was correcting. There are old errors too. Universalism and Calvinism are two such examples. :)

Actually universalism can be traced back to Origen, whereas Calvinism can only be traced back to Augustine.

12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will bring glory to me by taking from what...

With all due respect, this is non-responsive to the text I presented regarding Acts 28 and those who have become calloused and what they may have done otherwise. Do you have a reply to what this passage is actually teaching and do you have biblical support for this theory? And we can discuss...

Herald, I respectfully disagree brother. If you look back up at the context of the passage you see how Paul is working to persuade his fellow countrymen and many of them are not listening because they are so hardened in their ways. This is about them believing, which is why he says, "OTHERWISE...

Yet you affirm the condition when you write, "we must look elsewhere in scriptures to clarify that in fact, not all are brought life, but only those who recieve it." Not exactly. Arminians and some Calvinists (C. Hodge, Dabney, AA Hodge, Shedd, and some argue Calvin himself etc) believe that...

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-- 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the...

I would say hardening has to do with ones ability to hear, see, understand and repent. Calvinists teach men are born unable to do these things unless first regenerated, but the bible teaches differently. Consider this passage: Acts 28:27 For this people's [Israel] heart has become calloused...

Amen! We must all watch out for the stumbling block of legalism! Is that the one you meant? ;)

Agreed. I agree to an extent. Sometimes choices one makes through life affect the heart's condition. Scripture doesn't teach we are born hardened, it says we can 'become hardened' if we continue to rebel to God's revelation as most in Israel did. Where does it say being an enemy makes one...

Any one know a doctor who wouldn't mind writing me a prescription, cuz I need another beer....or 2

Don't confuse this discussion with facts Ruiz! We are talking about what is a sin TODAY in AMERICA, not 2000 years ago in Jerusalem!