Search results

And that is the very view Hodge said this about: "This doctrine, that the sufferings of Christ amounted to the aggregate sufferings of those who are to be saved, that he endured just so much for so many, is not found in any confession of the Protestant churches. nor in the writings of any...

:confused: You agree that Christ didn't endured just so much for so many? Doesn't that mean you affirm that what Christ did endure satisfied the justice needed for every individual, even if its only applied to those effectually called to come to faith?

He is not addressing my view. I know because he writes: "What is usually meant by divine permission is that God simply lets it happen. That is, He does not directly intervene to prevent its happening. Here is where grave dangers lurk. Some theologies view this drama as if God were impotent...

Yet, you just admitted you disagreed with Hodge's direct quote, remember? Hmmm. :thumbsup: So, which is it? Do you disagree with Hodge or not?

Yeah, a quote from Hodge calling "your view" a "gross and inexcusable misrepresentation" of Calvinism is probably not enough to prove the point I set out to make. :smilewinkgrin:

Your concession to the fact that you disagree with Hodge only goes to prove the intent of this thread. Thank you. :thumbsup:

As I said IN THE FIRST POST on this subject, I don't take issue with this general statement because I know the intent. I simply drew the distinctions (based on JF's specific questions) regarding God's actual utterances and that which He inspired to be written. So, while I would accept your...

Thanks for the post Allan. I particularly think this part of the quote brings much clarity to our discussion: "This doctrine, that the sufferings of Christ amounted to the aggregate sufferings of those who are to be saved, that he endured just so much for so many, is not found in any...

No, clearly not. I've never claimed any of God's creatures have total independence. They are confined within the perimeters of freedom that God, in his sovereignty, has set forth. Satan, just as any other creature, can only do what God has permitted Him to do. But, those who don't distinguish...

Actually, I think what he is saying is that the offer of salvation through the gospel can be genuinely offered BECAUSE Christ's work has satisfied the demands of the law and "is equally available for all." See how you always have to qualify your "all" and your "everyone" while Hodge does not...

Well, at least in that movie Satan was "in control" of his own evil desires and resulting ludicrous statements. Some here would have you believe that God causally determined Satan's nature, motives, desires and thus his statements so as to leave no real distinguishing factors between God's...

Who said anything about "complete freedom." You know how Calvinists always explain how Totally depraved doesn't mean men are as evil as they could be. Well we don't believe men are as "free" as they "could be." They do have limitations, obviously. And of course our morally free choices are...

Yet is also says, ""Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." 8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9 But he said...

DHK, the only hole was the one dug by those who would rather sling mud than understand simple but clear distinctions regarding God's actual utterances and that which He inspired to be reliably and authoritatively recorded in scripture. A distinction for which Aaron later (after much ridicule...

Ok, we are both reasonable human beings. Lets stop accusing each other of not having the ability to understand. We may have differing views and perspectives, but let's not reduce our dialogue to that level of discourse. Agreed? Brother, that was NOT the point I was attempting to make. I was...

When I was writing this I had terms more like "inerrant" (which was mentioned earlier) in mind simply because that term has been such fodder for legalist's and has caused so much unneeded distention, IMO. Right, which you seemed to concede just a bit ago with your batman exclamation and your...

ding ding ding :love2: Give that man a cookie! Thus, the difference between being provided (provisional atonement) verses the atonement already being "applied," as you wrongly attributed to my view. As Hodge says, "...his work is equally available for all."

Read what I wrote. I CLEARLY stated that he was NOT promoting Arminian views. He is promoting Calvinistic views, but they just so happen not to line up with some of the more extreme (or less informed) "Calvinistic" views expressed here. There are some Calvinistic scholars who do handle...

Plus, wasn't it you that went into that whole explanation as to how the whole bible was God's "utterance" as if you were making the case that God did utter these words of Satan? I think that was one of the post that lead down the so-called "hair splitting" trail, right?

1. When did I accuse you of splitting hairs? 2. You all (you and P4T) started all this by pouncing on a simple reply to one of JesusFan's many questions about the bible containing God's words or being God's words. I made this simple distinction and you both pounced like lions on their prey...