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Deleted post - wrong thread - d'oh!

I would say that it depends in what way they are dead. Those who died in the OT went to Sheol; what about those who (physically) die in the faith of Christ under the NT?

In what way are Christians who have departed this mortal flesh dead? Same question, I guess, to you as to DHK - do you believe in soul sleep or do you believe that Christians who have departed this world are alive with Christ in Heaven right now?

I don't think the analogy quite stacks up, there, Johnv

It comes down to the age-old question posed by the Man Himself: "Who do you say that I am?" [ETA - Thinkingstuff, the Church of England's Alpha course, which is a form of catechesis and which has led to many thousands being saved over here, explicitly deals with "Who was Jesus?" in Session #1]

Same difference in my book as far as the nature of Christ is concerned...

No, but the premise of the OP is that it is possible to be saved without believing Jesus is God, hence my reference to Muslims (I might as easily, as DHK has done, refer to JWs, Mormons etc)

I think that to commit your life to Jesus then you need to know Who Jesus is. Committing your life to Him is a massive step and not to be taken lightly. It is impossible to understand what you are doing then unless you know Who He is, at least in outline. You must know, for example, that He is...

Muslims believe in Jesus. They don't believe He is God however. Are they saved?

Absolutely. Agree with you totally.

:applause: That's kind of what I don't get about this place sometimes: to my mind, all politicos are liars, and the higher they are, the more and larger their lies, as a rule. As a Limey, I therefore have found it hard from time to time to understand the attitude of "well, he's our President...

So if I stand next to you and pray aloud, you can't hear me? If I ask you to pray for me, you can't hear me?

Incorrect. If you wanted to say 'worship' in Greek, you would use latria (whence 'idolatry'). You wouldn't use doulia. [ETA - I'd rather rely on Scripture and Tradition on this point rather than the opinion of man (Calvin)]

Which words? Neither veneratio or doulia mean 'worship', which is of course due only to God.

Well, its use in Greek and Hebrew is synonymous: the Greek Orthodox use the word doulia to describe the honour paid by them to saints (they use the word hyperdoulia to refer to what they render to Mary), and Catholic theologians likewise use this Greek word interchangeably with veneratio. And...

Actually it is, in a manner of speaking: 'venerate' is indeed an English word but one heavily rooted in Latin, where the equivalent word is veneratio. The equivalent in Greek is doulia; its Hebrew equivalent, שׁחה is used in the OT (often (mis)translated 'prostrate' or 'worship' in its context)...

And so (full circle!), where does that leave us with regard to eg: Calvinism -v- Arminianism? Whose interpretation on that issue should I go with, and why?

No it's not: the one thing an MP is not allowed to do is to call a fellow-MP (including the Prime Minister) a liar - such actions will warrant immediate suspension by the Speaker. Niles Gardiner is mistaken.

It depends. As Johnv has educated me concerning your political contexts, permit me to return the compliment: it's true that Minister's (and Prime Minister's) Questions in the House of Commons can be something of a bear pit, but that's a debate and it's different when an MP (minister or not) is...

Point taken. Still rude and inexcusable behaviour though. I see John McCain, amongst others has waded in against the Rep for South Carolina...