1 John 5:1 we become Sons of God after believing, Regeneration after Faith

[revmwc]

Belief begins the moment we are regenerated.

Matthew 19:28 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Those who followed did they follow Him by believing on or in Him or were they regenerated and then followed (believed) Him?

 

[Greektim]

When solid biblical correction is offered I do gladly accept it. I did on my formal education and I do when the Holy Spirit shows me that what some call correction is truth.

Slidell Seminary is hardly "formal education".

 

[Greektim]

Matthew 19:28 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

Those who followed did they follow Him by believing on or in Him or were they regenerated and then followed (believed) Him?

You can't be serious. You think this passage has to do with personal regeneration???

 

[revmwc]

You can't be serious. You think this passage has to do with personal regeneration???

Matthew Henry:
"All that partake of the regeneration in grace (John 3:3) shall partake of the regeneration in glory for as grace is the first resurrection (Revelation 20:6), so glory is the second regeneration."

They folowed and all but "Judas" were regenerated through Faith. One must first be regenerated in order to take part in the Regeneration or the Kingdom that is coming, the time of the regenerated earth. The two are connected and regeneration took place after they followed and believed.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Matthew Henry:
"All that partake of the regeneration in grace (John 3:3) shall partake of the regeneration in glory for as grace is the first resurrection (Revelation 20:6), so glory is the second regeneration."

They folowed and all but "Judas" were regenerated through Faith. One must first be regenerated in order to take part in the Regeneration or the Kingdom that is coming, the time of the regenerated earth. The two are connected and regeneration took place after they followed and believed.

Uh, that's melding two differing aspects of 'regeneration' my friend. The commentary does NOT support your error.

 

[Internet Theologian]

When solid biblical correction is offered I do gladly accept it.

EekRoflmaoBiggrinLaughRoflmaoBiggrinEekLaughLaughLaugh

Ummmm.....NOT!

This is self deception if you believe this. Show us where you've received correction.

 

[TCassidy]

Slidell Seminary is hardly "formal education".

Ah hah! Now it is starting to make sense! Slidell was discussed on the Baptist Board some time ago. http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/slidell-baptist-seminary.2936/

 

[TCassidy]

You can't be serious. You think this passage has to do with personal regeneration???

And that illustrates his problem. He does a word search for "regeneration" then posts the verse wherein it was found without ever understanding what the verse is talking about!

 

[TCassidy]

No regeneration occurs the moment we believe.

The really sad thing is that he fails to see the irony!

 

[revmwc]

Ah hah! Now it is starting to make sense! Slidell was discussed on the Baptist Board some time ago. http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/slidell-baptist-seminary.2936/

The only thing I posted on this board from SBS was on the power of God and prayer. So go back to try and figure it out, cause I received
Likes on that post.

 

[Greektim]

Ah hah! Now it is starting to make sense! Slidell was discussed on the Baptist Board some time ago. http://www.baptistboard.com/threads/slidell-baptist-seminary.2936/

Actually, I was referring to this post:

SAU (Southern Arkansas 1 semester)
International Christian University (AA in biblical studies)
Kingwood College (3 courses to help finish my AA form ICU)
Louisiana Baptist University (BA in Biblical Studies)
Slidel Baptist Seminary (thm and thD)

He didn't even spell Slidell correctly!!!

And it's a diploma mill.

 

[TCassidy]

He didn't even spell Slidell correctly!!!

LOL! And you were expecting what, again?

 

[John of Japan]

Welcome back did you see my question I posted in post #94

Thank you. I've run out of time, and will get to your post tomorrow.

 

[Internet Theologian]

cause I received
Likes on that post.

It's a MIRACLE!!!!!!!!!! Roflmao

 

[revmwc]

Actually, I was referring to this post:

He didn't even spell Slidell correctly!!!

And it's a diploma mill.

Diploma mills require no work SBS requires a lot of work. So sorry that doesn't apply

 

[Greektim]

Diploma mills require no work SBS requires a lot of work. So sorry that doesn't apply

I highly doubt you had to do a lot of work. A 30 credit ThD is not a lot of work. I don't even want to know what your ThM consisted of. But my guess is that it was not a post-MDiv (90 credits), thesis degree. Plus you didn't have to write a dissertation for your "doctorate". Plus the lack of academic rigor, plus no biblical languages, plus no serious scholars for teachers all equal a diploma mill.

 

[John of Japan]

revmwc from Interlinear, "Individually those think to be true that Jesus to be Christ (Believe) out from the God making them His son indeed individually that love that God making Christ of Himself"

Seems to match doesn’t it, all who believe.

I'm sorry, simply quoting an interlinear will not help you much unless you know the Greek syntax. For example, in this case the interlinear seems to say that believing is "out from God," and that doesn't match the Greek and is actually detrimental to your argument.

Again those who believe are born of God because of believing.

revmwc: God makes everyone who individually believes, His sons, because of their Faith in Him. The KJV says is born, others say has been born, however that perfect passive verb is not in the original language, as we see above. We see that the Greek states those who think to be true that is believe Jesus to be Christ God makes them His son.

Seems John states the same thing just in a way Greek scholars can understand it.

I have not made this point, and I don't think the verse does. I am not a Calvinist, but as a Greek prof I have to be honest with the text. I see no causation either way in the text (faith = regeneration or regeneration = faith).

Now to John have I missed what you are saying and do we agree? Did I misstate your position? Now the perfect passive verb form “gegennetai” which is derived from “gennao” need the English verb form, has, is or even have been, in order to say that the one born of or from God is that way due to God making them regenerated before they believe. The same with 1 John 2:29, 1 John 4:7. These state those born of or from God produce righteousness that is their works of righteousness are performed because of being born of God, and those born of God produce Love of the brethren and the Born of ones are so because they have believed, not that they believed because they have been born of God. Which was the whole point of the OP.

My position is that faith and regeneration occur simultaneously. Faith is a gift of God through the work of the Holy Spirit according to other passages, then simultaneously to faith occurring God the Holy Spirit regenerates. I don't find an order of salvation ether logically or temporally in Scripture, and also I believe the work of the Holy Spirit can be rejected.

 

[revmwc]

My position is that faith and regeneration occur simultaneously. Faith is a gift of God through the work of the Holy Spirit according to other passages, then simultaneously to faith occurring God the Holy Spirit regenerates. I don't find an order of salvation ether logically or temporally in Scripture, and also I believe the work of the Holy Spirit can be rejected.

When it talks about Faith being the gift isn't it referring to Faith in time, in other words doesn't it mean to be faithful in our Trusting God. Faith in believing the promises of God and walking a life of faithfully trusting God to fulfill all. Yet doesn't saving Faith come when the Holy Spirit brings conviction and by volition the persons responds to that conviction?

 

[Iconoclast]

When it talks about Faith being the gift isn't it referring to Faith in time, in other words doesn't it mean to be faithful in our Trusting God. Faith in believing the promises of God and walking a life of faithfully trusting God to fulfill all. Yet doesn't saving Faith come when the Holy Spirit brings conviction and by volition the persons responds to that conviction?

No......it does not.
....give it up rmac

 

[John of Japan]

When it talks about Faith being the gift isn't it referring to Faith in time, in other words doesn't it mean to be faithful in our Trusting God. Faith in believing the promises of God and walking a life of faithfully trusting God to fulfill all. Yet doesn't saving Faith come when the Holy Spirit brings conviction and by volition the persons responds to that conviction?

I think that's what I just said.... Thumbsdown