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A question concerning gluttony
- Thread starter jsn9333
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Now THAT was funny stuff!! :laugh:tinytim said:
For anyone who thinks that is good, clean humor ask yourself if you would be laughing if the obese guy was holding a half-drunk bottle of vodka with blood red eyes and slurring, "My temples just a'extree filled wi da spirit!"
If you still think it is funny, how about if he had a prostitute on each arm saying, "I'm just an extra friendly church!"
The fact that most in the church in America find the effects of gluttony laughable but drunkenness or other "worse" sins no laughing matter says a lot to other countries. For one thing, it makes the church look like it only believes some of the Bible. Also, it makes the church look like hypocrites. There are a lot of countries that look at obesity very differently then America (and more biblically, even if they aren't even Christian countries). I only saw two obese people in China the entire time I was there as a missionary. They may be rough on the obese (they won't let obese Americans adopt from their country). However, do you support Gay adoption? Or how about known drunkards adopting? Why is one sin any better then another sin? Do they take gluttony too seriously? They question is, how seriously does God take it.
"Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony." (Proverbs) "Better to just go ahead and kill yourself," says our maker!
All that being said, I think people who use the "body = temple" thing to promote exercise take things too far. I don't think Paul was referring to exercise when he used that analogy; to say that is what he meant strips the passage entirely out of its context.
Nonetheless, gluttony is warned against very strongly in the Bible, is one of the main causes of obesity (along with lack of exercise), and is practiced by and/or ignored and even laughed at by almost the entire Christian Church in America.
So many Christians get angry about comedians that use "cuss" words. But the fact is, no word is in and of itself "sinful". Any "four letter" word can actually be used in morally decent or morally neutral ways. And any word in the dictionary can be used in a morally sinful way. When the Scripture says to avoid filthy joking it isn't talking about potty language. It is talking about joking about sin. Sin is what is "filth" in God's eyes.
If you still think it is funny, how about if he had a prostitute on each arm saying, "I'm just an extra friendly church!"
The fact that most in the church in America find the effects of gluttony laughable but drunkenness or other "worse" sins no laughing matter says a lot to other countries. For one thing, it makes the church look like it only believes some of the Bible. Also, it makes the church look like hypocrites. There are a lot of countries that look at obesity very differently then America (and more biblically, even if they aren't even Christian countries). I only saw two obese people in China the entire time I was there as a missionary. They may be rough on the obese (they won't let obese Americans adopt from their country). However, do you support Gay adoption? Or how about known drunkards adopting? Why is one sin any better then another sin? Do they take gluttony too seriously? They question is, how seriously does God take it.
"Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony." (Proverbs) "Better to just go ahead and kill yourself," says our maker!
All that being said, I think people who use the "body = temple" thing to promote exercise take things too far. I don't think Paul was referring to exercise when he used that analogy; to say that is what he meant strips the passage entirely out of its context.
Nonetheless, gluttony is warned against very strongly in the Bible, is one of the main causes of obesity (along with lack of exercise), and is practiced by and/or ignored and even laughed at by almost the entire Christian Church in America.
So many Christians get angry about comedians that use "cuss" words. But the fact is, no word is in and of itself "sinful". Any "four letter" word can actually be used in morally decent or morally neutral ways. And any word in the dictionary can be used in a morally sinful way. When the Scripture says to avoid filthy joking it isn't talking about potty language. It is talking about joking about sin. Sin is what is "filth" in God's eyes.
tinytim said:
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This is the definition of a glutton according to the Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary.
Contrast this to the person who has a weakness for snacks that causes them to be overweight but they are hard working, sober and leads a quiet Christian life.
One habitually given to greed and voracious eating. Gluttony was associated with stubbornness, rebellion, disobedience, drunkenness, and wastefulness (Deut. 21:20). A more general meaning for the Hebrew term as a "good-for-nothing" (Prov. 28:7 TEV) is reflected in some translations: wastrel (Deut. 21:20 REB); profligate (Deut. 21:20 NIV; Prov. 28:7 REB); riotous (Prov. 28:7 KJV). When Jesus was accused of being "a glutton and a drunkard" (Matt. 11:19 HCSB; Luke 7:34), it was in this expanded sense of being one given to loose and excessive living. Gluttony makes one sleepy, leads to laziness, and eventually to poverty (Prov. 23:21).
Contrast this to the person who has a weakness for snacks that causes them to be overweight but they are hard working, sober and leads a quiet Christian life.
jilphn1022
New Member
Thanks for sharing this with us all!
As an overweight female, I can laugh at this and yes myself. As Jerry Falwell was mentioned in this thread. I can testify that I have a hard time stanying on a diet. I am reminded of Daniel who purposed in his heart not to eat of the King's meat.I know the taste of junk food and can be tempted at my weakest moments. Jerry was driven to serve the Lord. We miss him.
In other words, I can understand Jerry Falwell.
tinytim said:
As an overweight female, I can laugh at this and yes myself. As Jerry Falwell was mentioned in this thread. I can testify that I have a hard time stanying on a diet. I am reminded of Daniel who purposed in his heart not to eat of the King's meat.I know the taste of junk food and can be tempted at my weakest moments. Jerry was driven to serve the Lord. We miss him.
In other words, I can understand Jerry Falwell.
jsn9333 said:For anyone who thinks that is good, clean humor ask yourself if you would be laughing if the obese guy was holding a half-drunk bottle of vodka with blood red eyes and slurring, "My temples just a'extree filled wi da spirit!"
If you still think it is funny, how about if he had a prostitute on each arm saying, "I'm just an extra friendly church!"
The fact that most in the church in America find the effects of gluttony laughable but drunkenness or other "worse" sins no laughing matter says a lot to other countries. For one thing, it makes the church look like it only believes some of the Bible. Also, it makes the church look like hypocrites. There are a lot of countries that look at obesity very differently then America (and more biblically, even if they aren't even Christian countries). I only saw two obese people in China the entire time I was there as a missionary. They may be rough on the obese (they won't let obese Americans adopt from their country). However, do you support Gay adoption? Or how about known drunkards adopting? Why is one sin any better then another sin? Do they take gluttony too seriously? They question is, how seriously does God take it.
"Put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony." (Proverbs) "Better to just go ahead and kill yourself," says our maker!
All that being said, I think people who use the "body = temple" thing to promote exercise take things too far. I don't think Paul was referring to exercise when he used that analogy; to say that is what he meant strips the passage entirely out of its context.
Nonetheless, gluttony is warned against very strongly in the Bible, is one of the main causes of obesity (along with lack of exercise), and is practiced by and/or ignored and even laughed at by almost the entire Christian Church in America.
So many Christians get angry about comedians that use "cuss" words. But the fact is, no word is in and of itself "sinful". Any "four letter" word can actually be used in morally decent or morally neutral ways. And any word in the dictionary can be used in a morally sinful way. When the Scripture says to avoid filthy joking it isn't talking about potty language. It is talking about joking about sin. Sin is what is "filth" in God's eyes.
Well, so far, you've likened gluttony to about every sin listed in Scripture. And you seem angrier at what you deem "gluttons" than all others combined.
Why the hostility?
Gluttony is a sin. Agreed. But did God put you in charge on deciding how much weight makes one a glutton?
Be careful about those judgements...
The medical authorities agree that obesity is most often caused by a combination of two things: over-eating and lack of exercise. The guy in the cartoon is obese. Therefore, baring some rare genetic or hormonal disorder, the guy is most likely a glutton. Or are you seriously proposing that over-eating is not gluttony?
I refuse to "lighten up" about any sin, especially America's favorite sin that makes the Church in the West a mockery in the eyes of much of the lost world in the East.
I refuse to "lighten up" about any sin, especially America's favorite sin that makes the Church in the West a mockery in the eyes of much of the lost world in the East.
tinytim said:He's fat.. that doesn't mean he is a glutton.. lighten up.
Can a Christian brother on a Christian board in a thread about gluttony not ask why it is taken more lightly then other sins without being judged as hostile?
Instead of judging me hostile, ask yourself if you know of any Biblically honored men of the faith who were gluttons. I know some who got drunk (Noah and Joseph, since the same word that describes Noah in his tent describes Joseph drinking with his brothers, "shakar"). I know of some who had sex outside marriage (Abraham, David, Solomon, and others) or even with prostitutes (Judah)! I don't know of any who were mentioned as being gluttonous. Or is that question too "hostile" towards America's favorite sin for your taste?
Finally, I haven't said how much weight makes one a glutton. However, the medical authorities agree that obesity is most often caused by a combination of two things: over-eating and lack of exercise. The guy in the cartoon is obese. Therefore, baring some rare genetic or hormonal disorder, the guy is most likely a glutton.
P.S. I do not mean to imply that Joseph's drunkenness was to the point of sinfulness, or even Noah's for that matter. I believe, biblically, there is drunkenness meaning "glad" as in "let your heart be glad with wine" and there is drunkenness meaning "stumbling drunk", and I don't know which Noah or Joseph engaged in. So on that point, the argument only possibly applies. But it definitely stands as to the other hero's of the faith listed. Additionally, Jesus was accused of being a drunkard and a glutton by those who conspired to murder him, but there is no evidence he actually engaged in either of those sins.
Instead of judging me hostile, ask yourself if you know of any Biblically honored men of the faith who were gluttons. I know some who got drunk (Noah and Joseph, since the same word that describes Noah in his tent describes Joseph drinking with his brothers, "shakar"). I know of some who had sex outside marriage (Abraham, David, Solomon, and others) or even with prostitutes (Judah)! I don't know of any who were mentioned as being gluttonous. Or is that question too "hostile" towards America's favorite sin for your taste?
Finally, I haven't said how much weight makes one a glutton. However, the medical authorities agree that obesity is most often caused by a combination of two things: over-eating and lack of exercise. The guy in the cartoon is obese. Therefore, baring some rare genetic or hormonal disorder, the guy is most likely a glutton.
P.S. I do not mean to imply that Joseph's drunkenness was to the point of sinfulness, or even Noah's for that matter. I believe, biblically, there is drunkenness meaning "glad" as in "let your heart be glad with wine" and there is drunkenness meaning "stumbling drunk", and I don't know which Noah or Joseph engaged in. So on that point, the argument only possibly applies. But it definitely stands as to the other hero's of the faith listed. Additionally, Jesus was accused of being a drunkard and a glutton by those who conspired to murder him, but there is no evidence he actually engaged in either of those sins.
rbell said:Well, so far, you've likened gluttony to about every sin listed in Scripture. And you seem angrier at what you deem "gluttons" than all others combined.
Why the hostility?
Gluttony is a sin. Agreed. But did God put you in charge on deciding how much weight makes one a glutton?
Be careful about those judgements...
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Gluttony
I have actually never studied gluttony before.
I found out some interesting things!
Gluttony and drunkenness seems to be paired together....
De 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
Gluttony and drunkenness seem to be the visible manifestation of a rebellious, disobedient and stubborn attitude.
Another verse seems to support that....the attitude behind gluttony and drunkenness is rebellion.
Proverbs 23:19 ¶ Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way.
20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
22 Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old.
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
In the Pharisees' accusations against Jesus, they also called him gluttonous and a winebibber.....apparently being gluttonous and a winebibber was associated with sinners! The attitude behind being gluttony and drunk is associated with lawlessness...sinning.
Mt 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Lu 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
I guess what I am gleaning from Scripture is that it is the motivation that makes the difference between overeating and gluttony. Why is that person overweight? Is he, in his overeating, being rebellious in his heart towards the Lord? Or, is he overeating because he is nervous. Maybe he can only afford starchy foods.....fresh fruits and veggies are way more expensive than processed foods in America. Maybe he has a underactive thyroid. Or, maybe she is postmenopausal and her metabolism has slowed down...she needs to rethink her daily calories.
It seems from Scripture that it is rebelliousness towards God Himself which makes all the difference between overeating and gluttony.
What is in the heart, what is the motivation?
I have actually never studied gluttony before.
I found out some interesting things!
Gluttony and drunkenness seems to be paired together....
De 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
Gluttony and drunkenness seem to be the visible manifestation of a rebellious, disobedient and stubborn attitude.
Another verse seems to support that....the attitude behind gluttony and drunkenness is rebellion.
Proverbs 23:19 ¶ Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way.
20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
22 Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old.
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
In the Pharisees' accusations against Jesus, they also called him gluttonous and a winebibber.....apparently being gluttonous and a winebibber was associated with sinners! The attitude behind being gluttony and drunk is associated with lawlessness...sinning.
Mt 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Lu 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
I guess what I am gleaning from Scripture is that it is the motivation that makes the difference between overeating and gluttony. Why is that person overweight? Is he, in his overeating, being rebellious in his heart towards the Lord? Or, is he overeating because he is nervous. Maybe he can only afford starchy foods.....fresh fruits and veggies are way more expensive than processed foods in America. Maybe he has a underactive thyroid. Or, maybe she is postmenopausal and her metabolism has slowed down...she needs to rethink her daily calories.
It seems from Scripture that it is rebelliousness towards God Himself which makes all the difference between overeating and gluttony.
What is in the heart, what is the motivation?
Beth, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Gluttony is more than just eating too many calories. It's a whole mind-set of rebellion against God, a lifestyle of overindulgence, not just regarding food, but a lifestyle of stubbornness, rebellion, laziness and self-centeredness. To say that a person who is overweight, yet exhibits Godly behavior otherwise, is to completely misunderstand the word "gluttony".
My sentiments exactly. :wavey:Amy.G said:Beth, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Gluttony is more than just eating too many calories. It's a whole mind-set of rebellion against God, a lifestyle of overindulgence, not just regarding food, but a lifestyle of stubbornness, rebellion, laziness and self-centeredness. To say that a person who is overweight, yet exhibits Godly behavior otherwise, is to completely misunderstand the word "gluttony".
jsn9333 said:Can a Christian brother on a Christian board in a thread about gluttony not ask why it is taken more lightly then other sins without being judged as hostile?
.
Sure but your definition of Gluttony is wrong...
Gluttony does not = fat.
Being fat may be a symptom of gluttony...
But being fat does not make one a glutton.
Greed and laziness makes one a glutton.
Edited to say Beth and Amy got it right... Being glutton is more that being fat
You do seem hostile toward obese people..
And it seems that the only thing you can find wrong with being fat is your skewed interpretation of gluttony.
I am fat.. but I am not a glutton.
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Beth said:I have actually never studied gluttony before.
I found out some interesting things!
Gluttony and drunkenness seems to be paired together....
De 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
Gluttony and drunkenness seem to be the visible manifestation of a rebellious, disobedient and stubborn attitude.
Another verse seems to support that....the attitude behind gluttony and drunkenness is rebellion.
Proverbs 23:19 ¶ Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way.
20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
22 Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old.
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
In the Pharisees' accusations against Jesus, they also called him gluttonous and a winebibber.....apparently being gluttonous and a winebibber was associated with sinners! The attitude behind being gluttony and drunk is associated with lawlessness...sinning.
Mt 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Lu 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
I guess what I am gleaning from Scripture is that it is the motivation that makes the difference between overeating and gluttony. Why is that person overweight? Is he, in his overeating, being rebellious in his heart towards the Lord? Or, is he overeating because he is nervous. Maybe he can only afford starchy foods.....fresh fruits and veggies are way more expensive than processed foods in America. Maybe he has a underactive thyroid. Or, maybe she is postmenopausal and her metabolism has slowed down...she needs to rethink her daily calories.
It seems from Scripture that it is rebelliousness towards God Himself which makes all the difference between overeating and gluttony.
What is in the heart, what is the motivation?
You have done some very good exegetical work here that would be a great seed for a sermon.. .I might use this sometime to preach on gluttony...
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