A Tale of Two Faiths

[steaver]

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

I was thinking have mercy brother and let them get off the ropes and back on their feet awhile, but then again, naw, preach it brother!!!! You are spot on!!!

 

[The American Dream]

2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

I have no desire to gender strife, but the issue is not foolish and unlearned, and if you think I am going to make an insult at a person forget it. At the same time, no one gets a pass on making Scripture something it is not.

 

[DHK]

I have no desire to gender strife, but the issue is not foolish and unlearned, and if you think I am going to make an insult at a person forget it. At the same time, no one gets a pass on making Scripture something it is not.

Gendering strife is inferring that biblical belief originates from the evolutionary hypothesis of the Big Bang. I won't listen to that garbage.
Listen to what Jesus said and then try and understand.

Luke 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Twice in this passage did Jesus liken the kingdom of God to little children.
In verse 15 he even uses the word infants, babies, a word that emphasizes that these were very small children. What point was he making? Obviously Christ, the Son of Man, being perfect and righteous was one who could be trusted and the parents of these small children encouraged them to go to him. Otherwise they would not have gone.
Young children exercise faith. They put simplistic trust in their parents. They trust them for protection, guidance, provision, etc. Their faith in them is implicit. They do not go willingly to strangers. Sometimes they act almost "clingy" to their parents, not wanting to leave them at all, especially in a public place. The object of their faith is their parents.

Unless our faith is like that of a child we can in no wise enter into the kingdom of God. It is not given to us of God. We already have it, just like children do. Everyone does.
It is the object of faith that is important.
The object of one's faith must be Jesus Christ. He is the one that saves.
Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that God gives the unregenerate faith.
That is a speculative philosophy taught by Augustine and Calvin, not the Bible.

Put your faith in Christ.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Whoso hears my word and believes on him that sent me has everlasting life..
Whosoever believes on him has remission of sins...

Dozens of scriptures throughout the Bible command us to believe.
Faith is not a work, according to Romans 4:4,5. It is in opposition to works.
Faith is a necessity to salvation. Without faith one cannot be saved.

 

[convicted1]

The logical conclusion of your point here is that man could possibly save himself by keeping all if the law. Since you said that God would not command his creation to do something they were not able to do then it just stands to reason that it is possible for someone to keep all off the commandments that He gave.
Although that totally ignores the purpose of the Law which is to show us how sinful we really are. That we cannot keep it. So yes God does command us to do something we cannot do to point us to the Savior. And no that does not make Him cruel in the least.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

And yet the Calvinist argues all is pre-determined by God, making God the author of sin.

You failure once again to know what the Confession of faith teaches causes you to attack the historic faith once again...ignorantly...and in unbelief.
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )

If you would have learned this , you would not foolishly keep making such weak accusations...that only Steaver can enjoy.

From what I read there are no true Arminians here. It is a pejorative that Calvinists use to describe all who are not Calvinists. We prefer the term "non-Cals." I do believe in eternal security and don't believe in entire sanctification. I am not an Arminian.

:laugh:

Ask Icon. He believes that he was made "dead to sin" at the time of salvation.

Yes...I believe the biblical teaching which you deny.

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,

that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Yes The bible teaches this...you DHK deny it:laugh:

 

[blessedwife318]

They do seem to enjoy their straw man arguments and supposed gotcha questions don't they. And yet they constantly ignore posted scripture or they twist scripture to fit their man centered philosophy.

 

[DHK]

They do seem to enjoy their straw man arguments and supposed gotcha questions don't they. And yet they constantly ignore posted scripture or they twist scripture to fit their man centered philosophy.

"The pot calling the kettle black"??
I think so.

 

[Protestant]

How does a "dead man" converse with God?
This is the question that Calvinists must answer.

God did not provide a sacrifice for them until some time later when he provided coats of skin, killing the first animal and shedding blood. But up until that time He carries on a conversation with this dead man.
It is evident that Calvinism is wrong. According to Calvinism this cannot happen. Adam is dead. It is impossible for him to speak to God.
And yet you say???

Have you never read the Gospels accounts of Jesus Christ, God made manifest in the flesh?

During the entirety of Christ’s ministry God the Son was speaking to spiritually dead men.

Please re-read and re-study the night encounter which Nicodemus had with the Lord.

Nicodemus, the most highly respected and prized teacher of Israel was dumbfounded by our Lord’s ‘born again’ doctrine.

In essence, Jesus was telling all men that regeneration by the Spirit was the essential element needed by which man could then discern, receive, believe and enter the Kingdom of God as His child.

Final proof of their spiritually dead condition was exhibited when they crucified the Lord of glory, though He was without sin in His teachings, miracles and life style.

For 3 1/2 years up until the time of His crucifixion Jesus spoke with spiritually dead men.

 

[DHK]

DHK


You failure once again to know what the Confession of faith teaches causes you to attack the historic faith once again...ignorantly...and in unbelief.
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )

If you would have learned this , you would not foolishly keep making such weak accusations...that only Steaver can enjoy.

Calvinism is not the historic faith. It is Calvinism's faith. He borrowed it from Augustine. Both believed in baptismal regeneration. Augustine was one of the founding fathers of the RCC. He also believed in purgatory, transubstantiation, and a whole lot of other heresies. They both believed in persecution of believers whenever it suited their needs. But if that is what suits your needs then go ahead and follow it.

Yes...I believe the biblical teaching which you deny.

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him,
that the body of sin might be destroyed,

that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Yes The bible teaches this...you DHK deny it:laugh:

The teachings you deny are taught from the Scriptures. Even when clearly taught you still reject them.
Paul said: "I die daily."
Jesus said: If any shall follow me let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me.
The crucified life, being dead to sin, is a daily exercise.
You deny the very words of Christ.

 

[DHK]

Have you never read the Gospels accounts of Jesus Christ, God made manifest in the flesh?

During the entirety of Christ’s ministry God the Son was speaking to spiritually dead men.

Please re-read and re-study the night encounter which Nicodemus had with the Lord.

Nicodemus, the most highly respected and prized teacher of Israel was dumbfounded by our Lord’s ‘born again’ doctrine.

In essence, Jesus was telling all men that regeneration by the Spirit was the essential element needed by which man could then discern, receive, believe and enter the Kingdom of God as His child.

Final proof of their spiritually dead condition was exhibited when they crucified the Lord of glory, though He was without sin in His teachings, miracles and life style.

For 3 1/2 years up until the time of His crucifixion Jesus spoke with spiritually dead men.

Did that include Peter and the other apostles?
What about you? Are you spiritually dead?
How do you know?
Do you depend just on "your election"?
What assurance do you have that you are one of the elect?

 

[convicted1]

Have you never read the Gospels accounts of Jesus Christ, God made manifest in the flesh?

During the entirety of Christ’s ministry God the Son was speaking to spiritually dead men.

Please re-read and re-study the night encounter which Nicodemus had with the Lord.

Nicodemus, the most highly respected and prized teacher of Israel was dumbfounded by our Lord’s ‘born again’ doctrine.

In essence, Jesus was telling all men that regeneration by the Spirit was the essential element needed by which man could then discern, receive, believe and enter the Kingdom of God as His child.

Final proof of their spiritually dead condition was exhibited when they crucified the Lord of glory, though He was without sin in His teachings, miracles and life style.

For 3 1/2 years up until the time of His crucifixion Jesus spoke with spiritually dead men.

 

[convicted1]

Gendering strife is inferring that biblical belief originates from the evolutionary hypothesis of the Big Bang. I won't listen to that garbage.
Listen to what Jesus said and then try and understand.

Luke 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Twice in this passage did Jesus liken the kingdom of God to little children.
In verse 15 he even uses the word infants, babies, a word that emphasizes that these were very small children. What point was he making? Obviously Christ, the Son of Man, being perfect and righteous was one who could be trusted and the parents of these small children encouraged them to go to him. Otherwise they would not have gone.
Young children exercise faith. They put simplistic trust in their parents. They trust them for protection, guidance, provision, etc. Their faith in them is implicit. They do not go willingly to strangers. Sometimes they act almost "clingy" to their parents, not wanting to leave them at all, especially in a public place. The object of their faith is their parents.

Unless our faith is like that of a child we can in no wise enter into the kingdom of God. It is not given to us of God. We already have it, just like children do. Everyone does.
It is the object of faith that is important.
The object of one's faith must be Jesus Christ. He is the one that saves.
Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that God gives the unregenerate faith.
That is a speculative philosophy taught by Augustine and Calvin, not the Bible.

Put your faith in Christ.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Whoso hears my word and believes on him that sent me has everlasting life..
Whosoever believes on him has remission of sins...

Dozens of scriptures throughout the Bible command us to believe.
Faith is not a work, according to Romans 4:4,5. It is in opposition to works.
Faith is a necessity to salvation. Without faith one cannot be saved.

 

[The American Dream]

Gendering strife is inferring that biblical belief originates from the evolutionary hypothesis of the Big Bang. I won't listen to that garbage.
Listen to what Jesus said and then try and understand.

Luke 18:15 And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Twice in this passage did Jesus liken the kingdom of God to little children.
In verse 15 he even uses the word infants, babies, a word that emphasizes that these were very small children. What point was he making? Obviously Christ, the Son of Man, being perfect and righteous was one who could be trusted and the parents of these small children encouraged them to go to him. Otherwise they would not have gone.
Young children exercise faith. They put simplistic trust in their parents. They trust them for protection, guidance, provision, etc. Their faith in them is implicit. They do not go willingly to strangers. Sometimes they act almost "clingy" to their parents, not wanting to leave them at all, especially in a public place. The object of their faith is their parents.

Unless our faith is like that of a child we can in no wise enter into the kingdom of God. It is not given to us of God. We already have it, just like children do. Everyone does.
It is the object of faith that is important.
The object of one's faith must be Jesus Christ. He is the one that saves.
Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that God gives the unregenerate faith.
That is a speculative philosophy taught by Augustine and Calvin, not the Bible.

Put your faith in Christ.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Whoso hears my word and believes on him that sent me has everlasting life..
Whosoever believes on him has remission of sins...

Dozens of scriptures throughout the Bible command us to believe.
Faith is not a work, according to Romans 4:4,5. It is in opposition to works.
Faith is a necessity to salvation. Without faith one cannot be saved.

I did not call you or your posts garbage and you are not going to call mine the same. If I as an administrator responded to posters as I have seen in this thread, I would have been gone long ago.

 

[Protestant]

From whence comes this babble?
You have no Scripture, no message, so you--like others, attack the messenger. I don't see any scripture quoted, but I do see a lot of personal attacks.
--telling me: I am Satan's advocate, and other such foolish accusations.

Anyone who purposefully omits the mention of and dominion of Satan when making an apology for man’s ‘free will’ is doing a good work for Satan.

This you have done consistently and habitually.

The world at large denies the existence of Satan. The devil is pleased by such denial.

The world will not put up a defense against that which is not believed to exist.

How easy it is to devour the prey that lives in a state of false security.

They are no contest for Satan.

Professing Christians are the sport which challenges his ingenuity.

Sowing false doctrine which dishonors the Lord while honoring man, now that’s a worthy satanic endeavor.

You, sir, a professing Christian responsible for the care of souls, deny the numerous scriptural teachings, both of our Lord and His Apostles, which teach man’s slavish devotion to Satan, as well as man’s satanic intense hatred of Christ’s holiness.

In other words, you presume Satan to be an inconsequential adversary whom man, by virtue of the power of his ‘free will’ can cast aside, turning to Christ whenever he wills.

By so teaching you call Christ a false teacher, though Christ could not be more explicate when declaring:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Sinners are slaves of sin and Satan. They are not free, though they may, in their delusion, believe they are ‘free’ to break the chains binding them to sin and Satan, in order to do that which is holy and pleasing to God.

Jesus clearly states that freedom of the will or otherwise comes only when the Son of God sets the sinner free.

This is accomplished by means of the new birth by the agency of the Spirit.

Regeneration is the free gift of God, to any slavish sinner He is well pleased to set free.

 

[Protestant]

Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
Ezra 6:21 And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,
Psalms 40:16 Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.
Psalms 105:4 Seek the LORD, and his strength: seek his face evermore.

Psalms 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Isaiah 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Does God command his creature to do those things that are impossible for them to do. I realize that Calvinism teaches that wickedness also found in the doctrine of reprobation, but that is what I label it--a wicked doctrine that brings libel on the character of a God of love.

Your argument starts with man's sinful nature as the measure of whether God's lawful requirements are just.

We begin with God's holiness and sovereignty as Creator and Lord. His right to demand from man that which is good, holy and true is not only lawful, but necessary if He is to maintain His holy, infinite perfections.

Had the Lord made exceptions in His preceptive decrees as to our duty before Him, His righteous justice and holiness would be compromised to the point of defect, rendering Him deficient in the very qualities that make Him the only perfect Being in the Universe.

The God of the Bible will not lower His standards due to man's sinful rebellious hatred of Him and His perfections.

You would do well to study the communicable and incommunicable attributes of the God you profess to love and serve in spirit and truth.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

The teachings you deny are taught from the Scriptures. Even when clearly taught you still reject them

.

I have offered to you teaching and teachers that can clearly show why you are clueless. The fact that you refuse them has been openly exposed....everyone see's it now. You do not understand sanctification or our Union with Christ. That would not be bad except you offer fleshly false ideas in place of the scripture which you use wrongly with an increasing pace.

Paul said: "I die daily."
Jesus said: If any shall follow me let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow me.
The crucified life, being dead to sin, is a daily exercise.
You deny the very words of Christ.

Not at all. I just keep the two issues distinct as do other Christians...
BW 318 has seen enough strawman to spot it a mile away...Protestant see's this with crystal clarity....:wavey::laugh::wavey: AA, Reformed, Con 1 ,Rippon and everyone else call you on it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your argument starts with man's sinful nature as the measure of whether God's lawful requirements are just.

We begin with God's holiness and sovereignty as Creator and Lord. His right to demand from man that which is good, holy and true is not only lawful, but necessary if He is to maintain His holy, infinite perfections.

Had the Lord made exceptions in His preceptive decrees as to our duty before Him, His righteous justice and holiness would be compromised to the point of defect, rendering Him deficient in the very qualities that make Him the only perfect Being in the Universe.

The God of the Bible will not lower His standards due to man's sinful rebellious hatred of Him and His perfections.

You would do well to study the communicable and incommunicable attributes of the God you profess to love and serve in spirit and truth.

:wavey::thumbs::applause:

 

[Iconoclast]

I did not call you or your posts garbage and you are not going to call mine the same. If I as an administrator responded to posters as I have seen in this thread, I would have been gone long ago.

He has become ungluded as his error has been exposed. Many have offered help which he denies. there is frustration and he doesnot see a way out.
That way is scripture which he thinks he already has, even though everyone {except steaver and van } has told him that he has missed it.

 

[DHK]

Anyone who purposefully omits the mention of and dominion of Satan when making an apology for man’s ‘free will’ is doing a good work for Satan.

This you have done consistently and habitually.

The world at large denies the existence of Satan. The devil is pleased by such denial.

The world will not put up a defense against that which is not believed to exist.

How easy it is to devour the prey that lives in a state of false security.

They are no contest for Satan.

Professing Christians are the sport which challenges his ingenuity.

Sowing false doctrine which dishonors the Lord while honoring man, now that’s a worthy satanic endeavor.

You, sir, a professing Christian responsible for the care of souls, deny the numerous scriptural teachings, both of our Lord and His Apostles, which teach man’s slavish devotion to Satan, as well as man’s satanic intense hatred of Christ’s holiness.

Your accusations are way out of order.
First, you brought the topic of Angelology into this thread.
I ignored it, and you continue with, and then you accuse me of sowing false doctrine...a satanic endeavor.
I believe you owe me an apology.

In other words, you presume Satan to be an inconsequential adversary whom man, by virtue of the power of his ‘free will’ can cast aside, turning to Christ whenever he wills.

By so teaching you call Christ a false teacher, though Christ could not be more explicate when declaring:

I never said anything about satan. You presume too much!

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Sinners are slaves of sin and Satan. They are not free, though they may, in their delusion, believe they are ‘free’ to break the chains binding them to sin and Satan, in order to do that which is holy and pleasing to God.

Jesus clearly states that freedom of the will or otherwise comes only when the Son of God sets the sinner free.

This is accomplished by means of the new birth by the agency of the Spirit.

Regeneration is the free gift of God, to any slavish sinner He is well pleased to set free.

Have you been regenerated? How do you know?

 

[DHK]

He has become ungluded as his error has been exposed. Many have offered help which he denies. there is frustration and he doesnot see a way out.
That way is scripture which he thinks he already has, even though everyone {except steaver and van } has told him that he has missed it.

"He has become ungluded as his error has been exposed."
You too Icon. You can't refute me with the Bible so you just attack my character instead. Is this a characteristic of Calvinism. I guess it was of Calvin himself.