Acts 13:48

[Van]

Matthew 28:16 (NASB) But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated.
ἐτάξατο = aorist, middle voice, indicative.
WRONG AGAIN!

We have TC spouting nonsense yet again. Did I mistranslate Matthew 28:16? Nope. Did I parse tasso in Matthew 28:16? Nope

Does the NET (Dr. Dan Wallace being a Greek scholar) translate Matthew 28:16 as designated? Yes
Does the ESV translate it as directed? Yes
Does the HCSB translate it as directed? Yes

But on and on he spouts, you are wrong, taint so and so forth.

Returning to topic, Acts 13:48, where I said "as many as" were directed to eternal life by Paul's gospel presentation. This view is grammatically correct, there is nothing, repeat nothing in Greek grammar or Greek lexiconal word meanings, that precludes this translation choice.

Pay no attention to the misinformed as they try to change the subject.

 

[Van]

The best way to see this would be that all of them whom God had set aside, had reserved and appointed to get saved were the ones that got saved!

Here we have exegetical nonsense, stating that scripture should be view as being consistent with our preconceptions and presuppositions.

Did Paul present the gospel to the Gentiles? Yes.
Did some of the Gentiles believe? Yes
Contextual translation - as many as were directed to eternal life believed.

Pay no attention to all the insults, bogus theology and misinformation provided by the agenda driven folks.

 

[Van]

1) Matthew 28:16 with the NASB translating it as "designated." Here the idea is the disciples went to the location designated by Jesus. Thus they took the direction.

2) Acts of the Apostles 13:48 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here the idea is some of the Gentiles that heard the gospel's direction to eternal life from Paul believed.

3) Acts of the Apostles 15:2 with the NASB translating it as "determined." Here the idea is a group agreed upon sending Paul. Obviously Paul mutually agreed to go, he took the direction.

4) Acts of the Apostles 22:10 with the NASB translating it as "appointed." Here Jesus tells Paul to go and and learn what Paul has been directed to do. And again, Paul agrees and goes and learns.

5) Acts of the Apostles 28:23 with the NASB translating it as "set." Here a group had "set" a day for Paul and thus once again they mutually agreed to accept the direction to meet on that day.

6) Romans 13:1 with the NASB translating it as "established." Here the idea is God directed that governmental authority for the benefit of the governed.

7) 1 Corinthians 16:15 with the NASB translating it as "devoted." Here the idea is that the a group has set themselves to the task of ministry, yet another mutually agreed upon direction.

As you can see, tasso means to agree mutually, as in to believe in accordance with the gospel's direction to eternal life.

But as many as were directed to eternal life believed

 

[TCassidy]

Does the NET (Dr. Dan Wallace being a Greek scholar) translate Matthew 28:16 as designated? Yes

Yes. A middle voice verb.

Does the ESV translate it as directed? Yes

Yes. A middle voice verb.

Does the HCSB translate it as directed? Yes

Yes. A middle voice verb.

Not one of the above is passive voice. None.

Pay no attention to the misinformed as they try to change the subject.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Good. We are making progress.

Yes, love and hate are action verbs. "Be" and "exist" on the other hand, are state of being verbs. Entirely different subject.

Yes. I head the Gospel preached.

Yes. It was something I did. I heard. As a deaf man who must wear hearing aids in both ears I have a pretty good understanding of how much "work" it is to hear properly.

Yes. We know. An action verb.

Yes. We all know that. Nobody has claimed that. Completely different subject.

Exactly! You don't "do" anything. Including you don't "believe" to be born again. You are born again so that your new heart of faith can believe.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Yes. "Believe" is an action verb. It is something you do. It is the result of being given a new heart, being born again.

"Believe" is an action verb. My heart "beats" an action verb, but you can't see it. Because you can't see it does not mean it is not there.

Yes. It is something you do. And you do it as a result of God's Grace, not to earn His Grace.

Sort of like this?.......

27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[TCassidy]

Sort of like this?.......

27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Exactly! Now you've got it! "Believe" is something you "DO" (at least according to the bible.)

When God takes our old, cold, dead, heart of stone and replaces it with a new, warm, living heart of flesh, the result is a change in our lives.

The things we never believed before, we now believe. The things we never loved before, we now love. The commands we never obeyed before, we now obey.

Believe. Love. Obey. Trust. All the results of our new heart. Our being born anew. Our regeneration. Our new heart.

And none of them the result of our selves. All lovingly bestowed upon us by our Loving Heavenly Father.

All of Him. None of me. So I cannot boast but in the cross of Christ.

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

So you're saved before you actually "believe", because "believe" is something you "do"?

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Ok, I don't think anyone answered this question for me. In the Middle English manuscript below, how does "concupiscence" become "ordeyned" in a man?


With us, as to temptacioun, which peyne
335
Highte concupiscence./ And this concupiscence,
336
whan it is wrongfully disposed
336
Or ordeyned in man, it maketh hym coveite,
336
By coveitise of flessh, flesshly synne, by sighte
336
Of his eyen as to erthely thynges, and eek
336
Coveitise of hynesse by pride of herte./
337
Now, as for to speken of the firste coveitise,
337
That is concupiscence, after the lawe of oure
337

 

[TCassidy]

So you're saved before you actually "believe", because "believe" is something you "do"?

You have conflated "being saved" with "being regenerated."

My believing is the result of my being born again. And being born anew included His giving me faith, repentance, and the desire to obey.

My salvation began when I was regenerated and believed, repented, and obeyed. But it is not yet complete. It continues. When I was born anew I was saved from the penalty of sin. But my salvation was still not yet complete. I am in the process of being saved from the power of sin. And someday I will be saved from the presence of sin, when the Father calls me home.

So, you see, my salvation is an ongoing process. It only started when I was born anew. It continues every day, until the end of this life and the ushering in of the new life.

 

[Van]

Yes. A middle voice verb.
.

Laught out loud, I provided designated and you indicated that showed a lack of knowledge. Then I showed Dr. Wallace used designated, and everything is fine. On and on folks, one false charge after another.

Has TC explained why designated is a middle voice verb and not also a passive voice verb? Nope. Look at Acts 22:10 where the NET uses designated for a passive verb. So designated can translate either a middle voice or a passive voice.

But as many as were directed to eternal life believed.

Take it to the bank folks, directed best translates Acts 13:48, grammatically, contextually, and correctly.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

You have conflated "being saved" with "being regenerated."

My believing is the result of my being born again. And being born anew included His giving me faith, repentance, and the desire to obey.

My salvation began when I was regenerated and believed, repented, and obeyed. But it is not yet complete. It continues. When I was born anew I was saved from the penalty of sin. But my salvation was still not yet complete. I am in the process of being saved from the power of sin. And someday I will be saved from the presence of sin, when the Father calls me home.

So, you see, my salvation is an ongoing process. It only started when I was born anew. It continues every day, until the end of this life and the ushering in of the new life.

Ok, help me with the timeline here....



29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, Was the Philippian Jailer "born anew" here when he "sprang in"?

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Or here?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Or here?

You say your believing was a "result" of being born anew. So, the Philippian Jailer wasn't saved yet (according to Paul and Silas) until he believed, but at some point before that he was "born anew"?

 

[TCassidy]

You say your believing was a "result" of being born anew. So, the Philippian Jailer wasn't saved yet (according to Paul and Silas) until he believed, but at some point before that he was "born anew"?

You are trying to limit God to your dependence on time. He transcends time.

If God's Sovereign act of renewing is not the basis of our salvation, but rather we earn our salvation by believing, then you have created a problem.

If a person believes in order to get saved, then you have an unbeliever who believes. If belief must precede being born anew then you have an unsaved person who believes. And the bible says that is impossible.

Remember what Jesus said to Nicodemus. He said "You must be born again." He did NOT say, "You must believe in order to be born again."

 

[MennoSota]

Ok, help me with the timeline here....



29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, Was the Philippian Jailer "born anew" here when he "sprang in"?

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Or here?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Or here?

You say your believing was a "result" of being born anew. So, the Philippian Jailer wasn't saved yet (according to Paul and Silas) until he believed, but at some point before that he was "born anew"?

He was born anew when God made the jailer alive in Christ. The jailer did not do it himself. It's amazing when God graciously gives us the faith to believe.
It's too bad you think you can generate that kind of faith by your own power.

 

[Iconoclast]

preceptaustin;
(1.) The word is never used to denote an internal disposition or inclination arising from one's own self. It does not mean that they disposed themselves to embrace eternal life.

(2.) It has uniformly the notion of an ordering, disposing, or arrangement from without, i.e., from some other source than the individual himself; as of a soldier, who is arranged or classified according to the will of the proper officer. In relation to these persons it means, therefore, that they were disposed or inclined to this from some other source than themselves.

(3.) It does not properly refer to an eternal decree, or directly to the doctrine of election; though that may be inferred from it; but it refers to their being THEN IN FACT disposed to embrace eternal life. They were then inclined by an influence from without themselves, or so disposed as to embrace eternal life. It refers not to an eternal decree, but that then there was such an influence as to dispose them, or incline them, to lay hold on salvation. That this was done by the influence of the Holy Spirit, is clear from all parts of the New Testament, Titus 3:5,6; John 1:13. It was not a disposition or arrangement originating with themselves, but with God.

(4.) This implies the doctrine of election. It was in fact that doctrine expressed. It was nothing but God's disposing them to embrace eternal life. And that he does this according to a plan in his own mind--a plan which is unchangeable as God himself is unchangeable--is clear from the Scriptures. Comp. Acts 18:10; Romans 8:28-30; 9:15,16,21,23 Ephesians 1:4,5,11. The meaning may be expressed in few words:-- who were THEN disposed, and in good earnest determined, to embrace eternal life, by the operation of the grace of God on their hearts.

 

[Van]

Anyone can make up stuff by reading irresistible grace into Acts 13:48, but it is no where to be found in the text. No need to ignore the actual text. Or ignore the lexiconal word meaning. Or ignore how the word is sometimes translated. Verse 46 tells us that some Jews rejected the gospel's direction to eternal life. In verse 48 we see some Gentiles were influenced (acted upon) by Paul's gospel direction to eternal life, and therefore they believed. Supernatural enablement is no where to be found.

 

[Iconoclast]

Anyone can make up stuff by reading irresistible grace into Acts 13:48, but it is no where to be found in the text. No need to ignore the actual text. Or ignore the lexiconal word meaning. Or ignore how the word is sometimes translated. Verse 46 tells us that some Jews rejected the gospel's direction to eternal life. In verse 48 we see some Gentiles were influenced (acted upon) by Paul's gospel direction to eternal life, and therefore they believed. Supernatural enablement is no where to be found.

Wrong again ....salvation is a supernatural work of the Spirit of God....you cannot welcome it at this point in time.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I will try to answer each one.

Thank you.

Once again; "believing" on The Lord Jesus Christ is not a "work", neither is it a "deed".

Brother @TCassidy thoroughly debunked this in one of his splendid posts.

That is correct, He saves us on HIS own terms.

And those terms were met in the Christ. And those who He died for, all of those terms are then applied to us via imputation.

He gives every man "the measure of faith".

Uhhhh, you are misapplying Romans 12:3. Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.[Romans 12:1-3] The context of this passage is directed to believers and these believers have be allotted the measure of faith.

How you appropriate that faith is YOUR CHOICE.

If one has faith, they are saved. Faith is not a choice, neither does anyone choose to have faith. God gifts it to fallen man via regeneration. If one has faith, they are saved. They don't choose to have faith, and then are saved.

That is the way God designed it and intended it from the beginning when Adam ate the fruit when God told him NOT to, all the way through the old Testament like in Deuteronomy when He told the Jews to "choose life" up to now when He commands us to "repent" and "believe the Gospel". Giving us freedom of choice is clearly part of God's plan.

Ppl freely choose every day. But none chooses Him. The bible clearly states in in Psalm 14 and Romans 3. And those who are told to 'choose life' are those who were a covenant ppl to God.



I will address the rest later.

 

[SovereignGrace]

No sir, you know I have told y'all more than once that we cannot come to Jesus unless the Holy Ghost draws us. If you bring this up again, I will tell you the exact same thing again.

And to draw means to literally drag off. Granted, it doesn't mean He drags us kicking and screaming against our wills, but He effectually draws us. IOW, those He draw WILL come to Him. John 6:37 can't be any clearer stated.

No, I'm not saying that just now, I have said that repeatedly in these threads and without apology.
Romans 1:20 covers that one.

How'd I know you would throw in Romans 1:20 for your support? That verse speaks to man's eternal ruin outside of the Christ. It does not support everybody hearing the gospel.

God is righteous and with God all things are possible, I believe He gets word to them somehow.

So, God gets the word to them somehow? Somehow?!?!?!?!? So, if no one can get there to witness to them with the gospel before they die, God will violate His own word and get the word to them somehow? That's why debating with you guys makes it hard to stay engaged in these debates. But if not for others reading your beliefs without them going challenged, I would leave you guys alone.

There is no somehow to how God gets the word, the gospel to them.

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!” However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.[Romans 10:14-16]


For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.[1 Corinthians 1:21]

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,[Ephesians 1:13]

God does not get them the word somehow, but through the preaching/witnessing of the gospel. Faith comes by hearing the word of Christ. This hearing is not through mystical means, but through the words of a believer.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Stop playing the victim. Nobody has attacked you.

Is Van having another bout with his persecution complex?

Poor wittle fang...

 

[Iconoclast]

="Van

But as many as were directed to eternal life believed.

Take it to the bank folks, directed best translates Acts 13:48, grammatically, contextually, and correctly.

No it does not.....the apostles directed everyone to believe and not everyone believed.....as many as were ordained to eternal life did believe.