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Adoption - Am I missing something

COrick

New Member
So, I am wondering if I am missing something.

  1. It is my understanding that in Biblical Rome, the standard custom of adoption was to adopt a person who was full grown and had already proven their value to the adopting family. (This is for Historical context).
  2. I understand Romans 8:15 to mean that I have received the "Spirit of Adoption" (which is the Holy Spirit) at the new birth (in the same split millisecond as justification) and that I cry "Abba, Father" by the Holy Spirit. I can present more reasons for this but will not here.
  3. Romans 8:23 says that we (as Christians) are "waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body"; therefore, the adoption has not yet occurred according to this verse and, in context, is what all of creation "the creature" is waiting for. Romans 9:4 (still in the same context) states that this adoption pertains to the Israelites (The Abrahamic Covenant which I understand us to have been grafted into).
  4. Gal. 4:5 tells us that the child and servant are waiting for the "adoption of sons". Further, we are told that Christ came "that we might receive …" (subjunctive in the Greek so I understand it to mean in order to make us able to receive and not referring to our actual receipt of adoption) which still leaves the child and the servant waiting for the adoption.
  5. Gal. 4:6 says "And because ye are sons", which I believe is the best argument in the English for past adoption; however, the Greek word for "And" is G1161 ("de") which is "a particle adversative, distinctive, disjuctive". Therefore, I understand the "And" to mean that while the Gal. 4:5 statement and the Gal. 4:6 statement are true, they are not related and do not build on each other.
  6. Eph. 1:5 states "Having predestinated us unto the adoption …". As this list is to encourage the Christian to praise the Load, and the verb tense is present perfect; I understand this statement to refer to our current state as Christians and (according to Thayer's) G1519 ("unto") in this instance refers to the universal end for which we were predestinated. Therefore, I understand this to mean that the universal end for which I am being sanctified (to which I understand predestination to refer) is the adoption (which leaves adoption in the future, as my sanctification is not yet complete).
And so, I have gone through every instance of the word "adoption" in the New Testament and studied the Historical context and I fail to see sufficient support for adoption at the moment of Justification / New Birth (the closest is Gal 4:6 which I currently reject because the Greek word is G1161 ("de") and not G2532 ("kai") and yet it is preached as fact regularly. Am I missing something?!?!?! I would really like to know.

Please note, I am using KJV on blueletterbible.org for my study and using Thayer's definitions. When the reference is in the Thayer's Scripture index, I use that definition
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
I understand Romans 8:15 to mean that I have received the "Spirit of Adoption" (which is the Holy Spirit) at the new birth (in the same split millisecond as justification) and that I cry "Abba, Father" by the Holy Spirit.

"Theology 101 —

Salvation as Adoption."​

"The Bible speaks of salvation is in terms of adoption into God’s family.

"The focus of salvation as adoption relates to our legal status in God’s family.

"We hear this emphasis in our reading about saving faith in Christ in John 1:12,

“As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God to those who believe in His name.”

"By adoption, we understand that a legal right has been granted us. As Christians we not only possess the renewed nature of a child of God but also legal standing as an heir.

"Being children of God by adoption is also found in Romans 8:16–17,

“The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.”

Joint heirs.​

"People living in the Roman world would likely have been familiar with Roman regulations concerning adopted sons.

"Since by adoption God has made believers His children with full legal standing, we are joint heirs with Christ.

" Ancient Roman adoption laws furnished a good illustration of the permanence of a believer’s place in God’s family.

"If a Roman father did not have a biological son and chose to adopt a boy as his son, that adopted son had all the legal standing in the family as a natural born son would have.

"Quite often the adopted son was from a slave family. Adoption immediately lifted the adopted son out of the ranks of slavery and gave him social standing.

"More than that, Roman adoption law provided that an adopted son could not be disowned, having been freely screened and chosen by the adoptive parents.

"Furthermore, an adopted son not only had new status but also had full legal rights to the family inheritance.

Part of the family.​

"The most complete statement of adoption is Galatians 4:4–7,

“When the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

"And because you are sons, … therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”

"Membership in the family of God will be brought to completion when the spiritual membership also becomes a physical one upon being given a resurrection body like unto Christ’s resurrection body.

"Philippians 3:20–21a puts it like this:

“Our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body.”
 

COrick

New Member

"Theology 101 —

Salvation as Adoption."​

"The Bible speaks of salvation is in terms of adoption into God’s family.

"The focus of salvation as adoption relates to our legal status in God’s family.

"We hear this emphasis in our reading about saving faith in Christ in John 1:12,

“As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God to those who believe in His name.”

"By adoption, we understand that a legal right has been granted us. As Christians we not only possess the renewed nature of a child of God but also legal standing as an heir.

"Being children of God by adoption is also found in Romans 8:16–17,

“The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.”

Joint heirs.​

"People living in the Roman world would likely have been familiar with Roman regulations concerning adopted sons.

"Since by adoption God has made believers His children with full legal standing, we are joint heirs with Christ.

" Ancient Roman adoption laws furnished a good illustration of the permanence of a believer’s place in God’s family.

"If a Roman father did not have a biological son and chose to adopt a boy as his son, that adopted son had all the legal standing in the family as a natural born son would have.

"Quite often the adopted son was from a slave family. Adoption immediately lifted the adopted son out of the ranks of slavery and gave him social standing.

"More than that, Roman adoption law provided that an adopted son could not be disowned, having been freely screened and chosen by the adoptive parents.

"Furthermore, an adopted son not only had new status but also had full legal rights to the family inheritance.

Part of the family.​

"The most complete statement of adoption is Galatians 4:4–7,

“When the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

"And because you are sons, … therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”

"Membership in the family of God will be brought to completion when the spiritual membership also becomes a physical one upon being given a resurrection body like unto Christ’s resurrection body.

"Philippians 3:20–21a puts it like this:

“Our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body.”
You seem to be quoting people and not answering questions.

"The Bible speaks of salvation is in terms of adoption into God’s family." - Salvation is completed in three phases, 1. Justification, 2. Sanctification, 3. Glorification. Please specify which phase you are referring to.

"The focus of salvation as adoption relates to our legal status in God’s family." - are you not a legal child by the new birth already - in ancient Rome it was not uncommon to adopt your biological child into a new position in the family as the only person that could do the adopting was the Pater Familius - the Father of the Family, or the head of the family, which was the oldest male in the family

"We hear this emphasis in our reading about saving faith in Christ in John 1:12," - Here we are told that we have the power (exusia) to become the sons of God. I do believe that this applies to the adoption - We currently have been granted the right to be revealed as the Sons of God at the adoption - We are currently the Child of God by birth and are referred to as children when we behave childishly and as sons when we behave maturely

“As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God to those who believe in His name.” - If I did anything at Justification (other than believe), then grace is not grace

"By adoption, we understand that a legal right has been granted us. As Christians we not only possess the renewed nature of a child of God but also legal standing as an heir." - in Galations, the child is heir of all, but not yet adopted

"Being children of God by adoption is also found in Romans 8:16–17," - I addressed these in my question - please respond to the question asked

“The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ.” - you are assuming that this verse is due to the fact that you are adopted - you have not proved this assumption.

"People living in the Roman world would likely have been familiar with Roman regulations concerning adopted sons." - I am very familiar with the Roman regulations - you had to be a male, free, citizen of Rome - therefore at the moment of justification / new birth, you did not qualify

"Since by adoption God has made believers His children with full legal standing, we are joint heirs with Christ." - Galations refers to unadopted children as heirs - therefore, please prove the assumption of this statement which is that children are not heirs until they are adopted

" Ancient Roman adoption laws furnished a good illustration of the permanence of a believer’s place in God’s family." - I agree

"If a Roman father did not have a biological son and chose to adopt a boy as his son, that adopted son had all the legal standing in the family as a natural born son would have." - That is true - however, since the Pater Familius could move people from grandson to any other position in the family by adoption also, it does not prove your point

"Quite often the adopted son was from a slave family. Adoption immediately lifted the adopted son out of the ranks of slavery and gave him social standing." - This statement only includes the starting point and ending point of this process - The truth is that a slave could be given the greatest reward possible, which was his freedom, with the added gift of citizenship (if this was not added, he was not eligible), then he could be adopted. A slave was not even allowed in the building that had the judgement seat where adoption occurred.

"More than that, Roman adoption law provided that an adopted son could not be disowned, having been freely screened and chosen by the adoptive parents." - does not prove the point of when adoption occurs

"Furthermore, an adopted son not only had new status but also had full legal rights to the family inheritance." - so do the children born in the house - how is this not a benefit of the new birth also.

"The most complete statement of adoption is Galatians 4:4–7" - this is addressed in my question, please address the question

“When the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." - "Might receive" is in the subjunctive mood, in other words it does not address the when of adoption as mentioned in the question.

"And because you are sons, … therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.” - you leave out the fact that the child was also waiting for the adoption, and fail to address the question, which was about the "and" being the Greek word "de" and not "kai" and, therefore, the statement in 4:6 is distinct from, and does not build on, the statement in verse 5. This is why Bibles that are written in Paragraph form place verse 6 in a new paragraph.

"Membership in the family of God will be brought to completion when the spiritual membership also becomes a physical one upon being given a resurrection body like unto Christ’s resurrection body." - you have just stated when I am currently believing adoption to occur, and only to occur.

"Philippians 3:20–21a puts it like this:

“Our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body.” - This statement did not address when the adoption occurs.

I have been studying this for over a year, maybe two. If it could be answered with simple quotes, I would have long since been satisfied.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
So, I am wondering if I am missing something.

  1. It is my understanding that in Biblical Rome, the standard custom of adoption was to adopt a person who was full grown and had already proven their value to the adopting family. (This is for Historical context).
  2. I understand Romans 8:15 to mean that I have received the "Spirit of Adoption" (which is the Holy Spirit) at the new birth (in the same split millisecond as justification) and that I cry "Abba, Father" by the Holy Spirit. I can present more reasons for this but will not here.
  3. Romans 8:23 says that we (as Christians) are "waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body"; therefore, the adoption has not yet occurred according to this verse and, in context, is what all of creation "the creature" is waiting for. Romans 9:4 (still in the same context) states that this adoption pertains to the Israelites (The Abrahamic Covenant which I understand us to have been grafted into).
  4. Gal. 4:5 tells us that the child and servant are waiting for the "adoption of sons". Further, we are told that Christ came "that we might receive …" (subjunctive in the Greek so I understand it to mean in order to make us able to receive and not referring to our actual receipt of adoption) which still leaves the child and the servant waiting for the adoption.
  5. Gal. 4:6 says "And because ye are sons", which I believe is the best argument in the English for past adoption; however, the Greek word for "And" is G1161 ("de") which is "a particle adversative, distinctive, disjuctive". Therefore, I understand the "And" to mean that while the Gal. 4:5 statement and the Gal. 4:6 statement are true, they are not related and do not build on each other.
  6. Eph. 1:5 states "Having predestinated us unto the adoption …". As this list is to encourage the Christian to praise the Load, and the verb tense is present perfect; I understand this statement to refer to our current state as Christians and (according to Thayer's) G1519 ("unto") in this instance refers to the universal end for which we were predestinated. Therefore, I understand this to mean that the universal end for which I am being sanctified (to which I understand predestination to refer) is the adoption (which leaves adoption in the future, as my sanctification is not yet complete).
And so, I have gone through every instance of the word "adoption" in the New Testament and studied the Historical context and I fail to see sufficient support for adoption at the moment of Justification / New Birth (the closest is Gal 4:6 which I currently reject because the Greek word is G1161 ("de") and not G2532 ("kai") and yet it is preached as fact regularly. Am I missing something?!?!?! I would really like to know.

Please note, I am using KJV on blueletterbible.org for my study and using Thayer's definitions. When the reference is in the Thayer's Scripture index, I use that definition
Our adoption to God the father happens the very moment changed from kingdom of darkness into Kingdom of the Lord Jesus, when born again
 

COrick

New Member
number one, you made a statement as though it is fact, and did not give a proof.
number two, at the moment of our salvation, we entered that moment as an alien from the common wealth of Israel - and the adoption pertains to Israel in Romans 9. Therefore, according to Roman law, we were not citizens and, therefore, not eligible for adoption.
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
number one, you made a statement as though it is fact, and did not give a proof.
number two, at the moment of our salvation, we entered that moment as an alien from the common wealth of Israel - and the adoption pertains to Israel in Romans 9. Therefore, according to Roman law, we were not citizens and, therefore, not eligible for adoption.
(2) The Greek word for 'adoption' (huiothesia) is used both of the Israelites (Romans 9:4-8) and of believers in general (Galatian 4:5; Romans 8:15, 23; Ephesians 1:5; [John 1:12; 1 John 3:1-3!] ) and is implied particularly when we are called 'sons/children of God."

Some difficulty arises because our adoption is one of those "already - not yet" aspects of salvation.

(1) υἱοθεσία, ας, ἡ ...
ⓑ of those who believe in Christ and are accepted by God as God’s children (Iren. 5, 12, 2 [Harv. II 351, 2]) with full rights τὴν υἱοθεσίαν ἀπολαβεῖν Gal 4:5; cp. Eph 1:5. ἡ διʼ αὐτοῦ διδομένη υἱοθεσία AcPl Ha 2, 28 (s. app.). The Spirit, whom the converts receive, works as πνεῦμα υἱοθεσίας Ro 8:15 (opp. πν. δουλείας=such a spirit as is possessed by a slave, not by the son of the house). The believers enter into full enjoyment of their υἱοθεσία only when the time of fulfillment releases them fr. the earthly body vs. 23. ...

Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker, Walter Bauer, and F. Wilbur Gingrich. 2000. In A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., 1024. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.


Rob
 
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JesusFan

Well-Known Member
(2) The Greek word for 'adoption' (huiothesia) is used both of the Israelites (Romans 9:4-8) and of believers in general (Galatian 4:5; Romans 8:15, 23; Ephesians 1:5; [John 1:12; 1 John 3:1-3!] ) and is implied particularly when we are called 'sons/children of God."

Some difficulty arises because our adoption is one of those "already - not yet" aspects of salvation.

(1) υἱοθεσία, ας, ἡ ...
ⓑ of those who believe in Christ and are accepted by God as God’s children (Iren. 5, 12, 2 [Harv. II 351, 2]) with full rights τὴν υἱοθεσίαν ἀπολαβεῖν Gal 4:5; cp. Eph 1:5. ἡ διʼ αὐτοῦ διδομένη υἱοθεσία AcPl Ha 2, 28 (s. app.). The Spirit, whom the converts receive, works as πνεῦμα υἱοθεσίας Ro 8:15 (opp. πν. δουλείας=such a spirit as is possessed by a slave, not by the son of the house). The believers enter into full enjoyment of their υἱοθεσία only when the time of fulfillment releases them fr. the earthly body vs. 23. ...

Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker, Walter Bauer, and F. Wilbur Gingrich. 2000. In A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., 1024. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.


Rob
We have the status as being already adopted, but have no yet received out full inheritance, as will happen in our glorified bodies at second coming event
 

COrick

New Member
We have the status as being already adopted, but have no yet received out full inheritance, as will happen in our glorified bodies at second coming event
(2) The Greek word for 'adoption' (huiothesia) is used both of the Israelites (Romans 9:4-8) and of believers in general (Galatian 4:5; Romans 8:15, 23; Ephesians 1:5; [John 1:12; 1 John 3:1-3!] ) and is implied particularly when we are called 'sons/children of God."
Some difficulty arises because our adoption is one of those "already - not yet" aspects of salvation.

(1) υἱοθεσία, ας, ἡ ...
ⓑ of those who believe in Christ and are accepted by God as God’s children (Iren. 5, 12, 2 [Harv. II 351, 2]) with full rights τὴν υἱοθεσίαν ἀπολαβεῖν Gal 4:5; cp. Eph 1:5. ἡ διʼ αὐτοῦ διδομένη υἱοθεσία AcPl Ha 2, 28 (s. app.). The Spirit, whom the converts receive, works as πνεῦμα υἱοθεσίας Ro 8:15 (opp. πν. δουλείας=such a spirit as is possessed by a slave, not by the son of the house). The believers enter into full enjoyment of their υἱοθεσία only when the time of fulfillment releases them fr. the earthly body vs. 23. ...

Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker, Walter Bauer, and F. Wilbur Gingrich. 2000. In A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed., 1024. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.


Rob
So, if I am understanding the post concerning the Greek about the Spirit that the believer receives, you are saying that the Spirit the believer receives is the Spirit that a slave would receive - and a slave under Biblical time Roman law was not eligible to be adopted unless he had first been freed and made a citizen - the qualifications for adoption were 1. Male, 2. Free, and 3. Citizen.

I understand that "already / not yet" is the position that is taken; however, my current understanding is that we have been promised the adoption and it is certain, however, it has not yet happened. As adoption is a legal act, either the paperwork has been signed or it has not. It cannot be already / not yet. Also, of the already / not yet statements, this is the only one that I have never seen explained away by changing the words. (i.e. You are already / not yet saved changes to you are already justified but you are not yet glorified. Therefore, the other four already / not yet statements commit the logical fallacy of equivocation - the word meaning one thing in one statement and another in the other statement - and are, therefore, logically invalid just as the statement "There is no such thing as absolute truth." is invalid due to the fallacy of self-contradiction.) Another Judicial act would be Justification, and I would never accept a statement applying already / not yet to Justification - and I think nobody on this forum would either.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
(2) The Greek word for 'adoption' (huiothesia) is used both of the Israelites (Romans 9:4-8) and of believers in general (Galatian 4:5; Romans 8:15, 23; Ephesians 1:5; [John 1:12; 1 John 3:1-3!] ) and is implied particularly when we are called 'sons/children of God."

So, if I am understanding the post concerning the Greek about the Spirit that the believer receives, you are saying that the Spirit the believer receives is the Spirit that a slave would receive - and a slave under Biblical time Roman law was not eligible to be adopted unless he had first been freed and made a citizen - the qualifications for adoption were 1. Male, 2. Free, and 3. Citizen.

I understand that "already / not yet" is the position that is taken; however, my current understanding is that we have been promised the adoption and it is certain, however, it has not yet happened. As adoption is a legal act, either the paperwork has been signed or it has not. It cannot be already / not yet. Also, of the already / not yet statements, this is the only one that I have never seen explained away by changing the words. (i.e. You are already / not yet saved changes to you are already justified but you are not yet glorified. Therefore, the other four already / not yet statements commit the logical fallacy of equivocation - the word meaning one thing in one statement and another in the other statement - and are, therefore, logically invalid just as the statement "There is no such thing as absolute truth." is invalid due to the fallacy of self-contradiction.) Another Judicial act would be Justification, and I would never accept a statement applying already / not yet to Justification - and I think nobody on this forum would either.
Only those who are His children right now can call the father Abba
 

COrick

New Member
(2) The Greek word for 'adoption' (huiothesia) is used both of the Israelites (Romans 9:4-8) and of believers in general (Galatian 4:5; Romans 8:15, 23; Ephesians 1:5; [John 1:12; 1 John 3:1-3!] ) and is implied particularly when we are called 'sons/children of God."

So, if I am understanding the post concerning the Greek about the Spirit that the believer receives, you are saying that the Spirit the believer receives is the Spirit that a slave would receive - and a slave under Biblical time Roman law was not eligible to be adopted unless he had first been freed and made a citizen - the qualifications for adoption were 1. Male, 2. Free, and 3. Citizen.

I understand that "already / not yet" is the position that is taken; however, my current understanding is that we have been promised the adoption and it is certain, however, it has not yet happened. As adoption is a legal act, either the paperwork has been signed or it has not. It cannot be already / not yet. Also, of the already / not yet statements, this is the only one that I have never seen explained away by changing the words. (i.e. You are already / not yet saved changes to you are already justified but you are not yet glorified. Therefore, the other four already / not yet statements commit the logical fallacy of equivocation - the word meaning one thing in one statement and another in the other statement - and are, therefore, logically invalid just as the statement "There is no such thing as absolute truth." is invalid due to the fallacy of self-contradiction.) Another Judicial act would be Justification, and I would never accept a statement applying already / not yet to Justification - and I think nobody on this forum would either.
However, I did not mention (and I should have) that yours was the best reply I have ever heard to this question. You stuck to the Bible to give an answer, and I appreciate it.
 

COrick

New Member
The Holy Spirit Himself enables us to right now call upon The Father as Abba, as His children, not as illegitimates
On "Abba, Father", the statement "Abba, Father" occurs three times in Scripture.
1. Mar 14:36 - Jesus calls God the Father, "Abba, Father"
2. Gal 4:6 - the Holy Spirit ("Spirit of his Son") cries "Abba, Father" in the Christian's heart
3. Rom 8:15 - the Christian cries "Abba, Father" by the Spirit of Adoption (the Holy Spirit)

Therefore, I would conclude that when the statement "Abba, Father" comes out of our mouth, it is because the Holy Spirit said it in our hearts and "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh". This does not require the adoption to have been completed as we are given the Holy Spirit at the new birth.
 

COrick

New Member
If the new birth is a legitimate birth, then, even prior to the adoption, I am God's child.
Let me explain Roman Law a little further - the only person in the family that had the authority to adopt was the Pater Familius - the Father of the Family. In my case that would be my Dad. I am a grandfather, and my dad would have the right to move my grandchild to the legal position of being my sibling through the use of adoption if he so chose. This does not make my grandchild's birth illegitimate, it would be a change of position within the family and completely allowed under Biblical time Roman Law.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
It is my understanding that in Biblical Rome, the standard custom of adoption was to adopt a person who was full grown and had already proven their value to the adopting family. (This is for Historical context).
I've heard that as well, but haven't looked any further into it.
I understand Romans 8:15 to mean that I have received the "Spirit of Adoption" (which is the Holy Spirit) at the new birth (in the same split millisecond as justification) and that I cry "Abba, Father" by the Holy Spirit. I can present more reasons for this but will not here.
I understand it a little differently.
I've received the Spirit of my adoption ( the Holy Spirit, the "earnest" or down-payment of my inheritance ) at the new birth, but my justification was performed at the cross when my Saviour died for me and shed His blood. I cry "Abba, Father" through my spirit because of the work of the Holy Spirit in me.
Romans 8:23 says that we (as Christians) are "waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body"; therefore, the adoption has not yet occurred according to this verse and, in context, is what all of creation "the creature" is waiting for. Romans 9:4 (still in the same context) states that this adoption pertains to the Israelites (The Abrahamic Covenant which I understand us to have been grafted into).
I agree, and see the believer as being fully adopted in the first resurrection...even though we are eternally secure in our adoption before then.

However, I see Romans 9:4 speaking to a different set of people...national Israel, who were adopted into an earthly covenant ( not an eternal one ) with earthly promises...temporal penalties and rewards for either obedience to the Law of Moses, or disobedience to it.
The covenant that we as Gentile believers have been grafted into, is an eternal and spiritual covenant made between God the Father and God the Son....and includes all those whom the Father has given to the Son to be saved; Both Jew and Gentile.
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Once again, a statement as fact without a proof, please present a proof.

(ONE) CLARIFICATION PLEASE:
Your statement: "I fail to see sufficient support for adoption at the moment of Justification".

Are you looking for someone to prove that adoption occurs upon believing (at the moment of justification)?


(TWO) So let me get this straight, your reason for rejecting the Galatians passage is:
" I fail to see sufficient support for adoption at the moment of Justification / New Birth (the closest is Gal 4:6 which I currently reject because the Greek word is G1161 ("de") and not G2532 ("kai") and yet it is preached as fact regularly.

Please note, I am using KJV on blueletterbible.org for my study and using Thayer's definitions. When the reference is in the Thayer's Scripture index, I use that definition

I fail to see how the subtle difference between the Greek, καί; δέ, might the meaning of the Galatians passage. It's not a manuscript variant. Why even bring it up? Please elaborate!

(THREE) Just a comment about Thayer's Lexicon of 1886,

IT'S STRENGTHS:
1) It's free,
2) t's available online,
3) it's linked to Strong's Concordance

IT'S WEAKNESSES:
1) It's old.
2) Thayer's definitions are often drawn from Classical Greek rather than NT Koine Greek.
3) It was published prior to the discovery of the papyri, so it often gives less than complete definitions.

Use Thayer's with care, recognizing its weaknesses.
When confronted with a problem, confirm your conclusion by consulting other sources.


(FOUR) Adoption (huiothesia) is a simple metaphor, picturing a believers change of (legal) status, both present and prospective.
As a metaphor it shouldn't be stretched beyond its intended use.

The "proof" is provided in the Scripture that you presented in your opening post. look, I'm no Greek expert but don't get too carried away with the various Greek cases ...distinctive, adjunctive subjective disjuctives... [I think we could make a Sesame Street rhyme out of that].
The translations we use were make by experts with far more education that we have.

Romans 8:15 (AV 1873) [context, Romans 8:14-23]
...but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Galatians 4:4–7 (AV 1873)
...And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Both in Romans and Galatians, Paul says we cry out, "abba" (father), a description of a believers present relationship with God.

1 John 3:1–2 (ESV 2016)
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. ... Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

Rob


 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Gal. 4:5 tells us that the child and servant are waiting for the "adoption of sons". Further, we are told that Christ came "that we might receive …" (subjunctive in the Greek so I understand it to mean in order to make us able to receive and not referring to our actual receipt of adoption) which still leaves the child and the servant waiting for the adoption.
I agree...I see the "adoption of sons" similarly as you do here.
Gal. 4:6 says "And because ye are sons", which I believe is the best argument in the English for past adoption; however, the Greek word for "And" is G1161 ("de") which is "a particle adversative, distinctive, disjuctive". Therefore, I understand the "And" to mean that while the Gal. 4:5 statement and the Gal. 4:6 statement are true, they are not related and do not build on each other.
Agreed.
Past adoption...and to me, they are related and do build upon one another.

For example, he tells believers that they are sons...not "will be".
Eph. 1:5 states "Having predestinated us unto the adoption …". As this list is to encourage the Christian to praise the Load, and the verb tense is present perfect; I understand this statement to refer to our current state as Christians and (according to Thayer's) G1519 ("unto") in this instance refers to the universal end for which we were predestinated. Therefore, I understand this to mean that the universal end for which I am being sanctified (to which I understand predestination to refer) is the adoption (which leaves adoption in the future, as my sanctification is not yet complete).
OK, I understand why you see it that way.
However, I didn't arrive at it by looking at the Greek, but by reading and understanding it from the text alone.

Straight-forwardly, it tells me that not only were the Ephesian believers chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world ( verse 4 ), but that the reason for that choice ( and subsequent work of predestination by God ) was specifically to be the sons and daughters of God.

A bit differently than you do ( but not overly different ), I understand that the reason that I was sanctified and justified in God's eyes at the cross and by the blood of Jesus Christ, was because of God's purpose to adopt me and others like me. My predestination, sanctification, justification, and calling are all complete, but my growth as a child of God and my glorification are not yet finished.
 
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Dave G

Well-Known Member
And so, I have gone through every instance of the word "adoption" in the New Testament and studied the Historical context and I fail to see sufficient support for adoption at the moment of Justification / New Birth (the closest is Gal 4:6 which I currently reject because the Greek word is G1161 ("de") and not G2532 ("kai") and yet it is preached as fact regularly. Am I missing something?!?!?! I would really like to know.
I understand your problem, as I don't see God's word telling me that my adoption coincided with my justification;
Rather, they happen at different times, from our perspective.

Contrary to how I was taught from pulpits many years ago, I now see things quite differently:

To me, justification was at the cross.
The new birth coincides closely with when I first believed on Christ for the forgiveness of my sins.
Physical, or bodily adoption is at my glorification...at the first resurrection when I will receive my glorified body.
 
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