All are saved by grace.

[GoodTidings]

The flesh cannot develop saving faith.

It's all the same fruit of the Holy Spirit.

That is not true. They are two different words in the Greek. I realize it is probably easier for you to commit intellectual suicide and just ignore the fact that the Greek doesn't support your claims. I think I will stick to the Bible and reject your false teaching.

 

[1689Dave]

No, that is not biblical and you are in serious error when it comes to something as basic as salvation. The Bible teaches that we are to place faith in Christ first then we are saved.

Only the born again will have true faith and see Christ as he really is.

 

[1689Dave]

That is not true. They are two different words in the Greek. I realize it is probably easier for you to commit intellectual suicide and just ignore the fact that the Greek doesn't support your claims. I think I will stick to the Bible and reject your false teaching.

Various translations use the words interchangeably.

 

[MB]

The flesh cannot develop saving faith.

It's all the same fruit of the Holy Spirit.

No it isn't. Paul wrote;
Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
This is the faith to believe in Jesus Christ.
MB

 

[1689Dave]

No it isn't. Paul wrote;
Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
This is the faith to believe in Jesus Christ.
MB

“And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.” (2 Thessalonians 3:2)

 

[utilyan]

The bible says faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

Try picking an apple where an apple tree does not exist.

You cannot believe unless you have the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit thereof.

So are you saying John is a liar?

So everyone who ever has Joy or been gentle is born again?

God created the sky and it is blue therefore regeneration precedes faith.

I can keep quoting scriptures, but you can't cough up one verse that supports your theology?

Maybe we should rewrite a new Calvinist bible.

1 Corinthians 1
21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Calvinist bible

21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to give belief to those saved.



Acts 16
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Calvinist bible

31They said, “Be saved in the Lord Jesus, and you will believe, you and your household.”


Oh you are going to love this one:

Acts 2

38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Calvinist bible:

Nope you get the gift of the holy spirit FIRST. then they believe to repent.


backwards backwards backwards......


And I can keep going brother...... i'm talking probably around 50 verses.

But you can't cough ONE verse that backs up you up?

Children are a gift from God.......so if you have children you must be ELECT.

Please...

Hebrews 6

4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

 

[1689Dave]

So are you saying John is a liar?

So everyone who ever has Joy or been gentle is born again?

God created the sky and it is blue therefore regeneration precedes faith.

I can keep quoting scriptures, but you can't cough up one verse that supports your theology?

Maybe we should rewrite a new Calvinist bible.

1 Corinthians 1
21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

Calvinist bible

21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to give belief to those saved.



Acts 16
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Calvinist bible

31They said, “Be saved in the Lord Jesus, and you will believe, you and your household.”


Oh you are going to love this one:

Acts 2

38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Calvinist bible:

Nope you get the gift of the holy spirit FIRST. then they believe to repent.


backwards backwards backwards......


And I can keep going brother...... i'm talking probably around 50 verses.

But you can't cough ONE verse that backs up you up?

Children are a gift from God.......so if you have children you must be ELECT.

Please...

Hebrews 6

4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

= salvation through the flesh by works.

 

[MB]

“And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.” (2 Thessalonians 3:2)

So we have a contradiction in scripture. Is this what you are saying. Obviously men can be unreasonable and wicked and not place there faith in Christ other wise all would be saved. But because they had not placed there faith in Christ does not mean they were not able to.
MB

 

[MB]

The flesh cannot develop saving faith.

It's all the same fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Do you believe we are just zapped with faith?
MB

 

[1689Dave]

Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Do you believe we are just zapped with faith?
MB

Faith grows in the Holy Spirit. It is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[1689Dave]

So we have a contradiction in scripture. Is this what you are saying. Obviously men can be unreasonable and wicked and not place there faith in Christ other wise all would be saved. But because they had not placed there faith in Christ does not mean they were not able to.
MB

If you balance the verses it means this;

“For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.” (Romans 12:3)

 

[InTheLight]

You were born again or you would not have believed.

Do you want to address John 20:31 and Ephesians 1:13 and John 3:36, all verses that directly contradict what your man-made theology is saying? Or are you just going to continue to parrot your lines and hope that it magically becomes true?

 

[InTheLight]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (salvation).

Ephesians 1:13 says we were given the Holy Spirit AFTER we heard the gospel, AFTER we believed.

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

But here you go again contradicting the Bible.

 

[37818]

The Calvinist must believe before he chooses to repent.

Believe and then repent. So like Mormons and Church of Christ churches as they call themselves.

Mormon: We believe tha the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Church of Christ:
Believe.
Repent.
Baptism.

 

[InTheLight]

Faith grows in the Holy Spirit. It is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

The fruit of the spirit being discussed in the passage in Galatians is not saving faith, it is faith in God that grows with Christian maturity. The abiding faith that gives you confidence in God that he will meet your needs, console you, lift you up, inspire you.

 

[utilyan]

= salvation through the flesh by works.

Brother your signature says:

"Choosing to believe is the first step of faith for many...."

 

[1689Dave]

Brother your signature says:

"Choosing to believe is the first step of faith for many...."

Biblical faith as opposed to flesh belief = tow different things. The Catholics depend of flesh faith and the sacraments for salvation. But true salvation is a supernatural work of God in the heart.

 

[1689Dave]

The fruit of the spirit being discussed in the passage in Galatians is not saving faith, it is faith in God that grows with Christian maturity. The abiding faith that gives you confidence in God that he will meet your needs, console you, lift you up, inspire you.

really? Is love really love in Galatians? Or meekness and act you perform in the flesh to become meek?

 

[1689Dave]

Believe and then repent. So like Mormons and Church of Christ churches as they call themselves.

Mormon: We believe tha the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Church of Christ:
Believe.
Repent.
Baptism.

But believing with the flesh cannot save. That's the difference.

 

[1689Dave]

Ephesians 1:13 says we were given the Holy Spirit AFTER we heard the gospel, AFTER we believed.

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

But here you go again contradicting the Bible.

“In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” (Ephesians 1:11–13)

The good news of your salvation? = we believe because we are saved.