All are saved by grace.

[InTheLight]

really? Is love really love in Galatians? Or meekness and act you perform in the flesh to become meek?

First of all, a proper translation of Gal. 5:22 uses the word faithfulness, not faith, as a fruit of the Spirit. This indicates that saving faith in not what is being described.

Secondly, anybody can exhibit love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control for a little while. This verse is about the degree and consistency of exhibiting these fruits of the Spirit.

 

[1689Dave]

Do you want to address John 20:31 and Ephesians 1:13 and John 3:36, all verses that directly contradict what your man-made theology is saying? Or are you just going to continue to parrot your lines and hope that it magically becomes true?

“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” (John 20:30–31)

= faith, a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” (Ephesians 1:13)

= Your salvation already exists before you believe

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36)

= characteristic of the saved.

 

[1689Dave]

First of all, a proper translation of Gal. 5:22 uses the word faithfulness, not faith, as a fruit of the Spirit. This indicates that saving faith in not what is being described.

Secondly, anybody can exhibit love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control for a little while. This verse is about the degree and consistency of exhibiting these fruits of the Spirit.

It's all a fruit/effect of the Holy Spirit.

 

[InTheLight]

It's all a fruit/effect of the Holy Spirit.

Just to clarify--are you saying that ONLY saved, born again people can show longsuffering? Only saved, born again people can be gentle?

 

[1689Dave]

Just to clarify--are you saying that ONLY saved, born again people can show longsuffering? Only saved, born again people can be gentle?

Motive is everything.

 

[MB]

Believe and then repent. So like Mormons and Church of Christ churches as they call themselves.

Mormon: We believe tha the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Church of Christ:
Believe.
Repent.
Baptism.

I've been looking for a person who told me that I would be his servant in heaven. I believe this is what Mormons believe about those who are not active in there ward as they call churches.
MB

 

[InTheLight]

“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” (John 20:30–31)

= faith, a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” (Ephesians 1:13)

= Your salvation already exists before you believe

“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (John 3:36)

= characteristic of the saved.

 

[1689Dave]

View attachment 2874

So you only read a passage once?

 

[utilyan]

Biblical faith as opposed to flesh belief = tow different things. The Catholics depend of flesh faith and the sacraments for salvation. But true salvation is a supernatural work of God in the heart.

Catholics believe we are saved by faith, just not faith alone.

You say faith is work, so you don't actually believe in FAITH ALONE do you?

You don't believe faith saves at all, faith is just a product of being saved.

 

[37818]

But believing with the flesh cannot save. That's the difference.

Unless one, for what ever reason, first repents [changes one's mind or view], it is impossible to believe anything one has not already believed!

 

[1689Dave]

Catholics believe we are saved by faith, just not faith alone.

You say faith is work, so you don't actually believe in FAITH ALONE do you?

You don't believe faith saves at all, faith is just a product of being saved.

It's not biblical faith. It's the same flesh faith you buy a used car with.

 

[1689Dave]

Unless one, for what ever reason, first repents [changes one's mind or view], it is impossible to believe anything one has not already believed!

Who would ever repent without first believing enough to change their mind?

 

[GoodTidings]

Various translations use the words interchangeably.

Not talking about translations. Talking about Greek. The Greek does not say that "faith" is a fruit of the spirit. It says that faithfulness is a fruit of the Spirit.

You need to find the honesty and the courage to face up to that fact. The Bible makes it clear that we are saved by faith, meaning that the faith a sinner exercises in accepting the Gospel is sufficient for salvation.

You have an errant theology that is not based on the Bible.

 

[GoodTidings]

“In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,” (Ephesians 1:11–13)

The good news of your salvation? = we believe because we are saved.

Wrong. God does not save us before we believe, before we put faith in Jesus. I think it is worth noting that no one is buying the snake oil you're selling.

 

[37818]

Who would ever repent without first believing enough to change their mind?

So according to you, one must first be gullible and then believe so one can have the excuse to say one has changed one's mind.

And, oh, Jesus must, according to you, have His instruction backwards, ". . . repent ye, and believe the gospel. . . ."

 

[utilyan]

It's not biblical faith. It's the same flesh faith you buy a used car with.

I bought my biblical car with spiritual cash.

The distinction "Biblical faith" is not biblical.

Just sticking religious sounding words in front of everything doesn't make it holy.

Faith is just Faith.

 

[canadyjd]

Who would ever repent without first believing enough to change their mind?

In my case, I was under conviction of my sin. I had believed my good works would be weighed against the bad and God would judge on that basis. I believe Holy Spirit showed me clearly how bad my sin was. I asked God to take my life, that I wouldnt sin against Him anymore. It was then that I remembered what I had heard and read about Jesus dying on the cross for my sin. For the first time i understood that faith in Jesus would cover my sin. It was then that I believed.

Do you believe I was regenerate before I believed? What role in the regeneration "process" does the "drawing" and conviction of Holy Spirit occur?

 

[1689Dave]

In my case, I was under conviction of my sin. I had believed my good works would be weighed against the bad and God would judge on that basis. I believe Holy Spirit showed me clearly how bad my sin was. I asked God to take my life, that I wouldnt sin against Him anymore. It was then that I remembered what I had heard and read about Jesus dying on the cross for my sin. For the first time i understood that faith in Jesus would cover my sin. It was then that I believed.

Do you believe I was regenerate before I believed? What role in the regeneration "process" does the "drawing" and conviction of Holy Spirit occur?

Your conviction of sin was because of the new birth. The joy of the Holy Spirit becomes more full the more you repent.

 

[1689Dave]

I bought my biblical car with spiritual cash.

The distinction "Biblical faith" is not biblical.

Just sticking religious sounding words in front of everything doesn't make it holy.

Faith is just Faith.

But you had to be born again or you would not want to spend your spiritual cash. You were broke with only flesh cash before.

 

[1689Dave]

So according to you, one must first be gullible and then believe so one can have the excuse to say one has changed one's mind.

And, oh, Jesus must, according to you, have His instruction backwards, ". . . repent ye, and believe the gospel. . . ."

Who would change their mind unless something prompted it?