1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Who is going to act without first believing? Are we nothing but muscle that twitches mindlessly at random?
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All are saved by grace.
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GoodTidings
Well-Known Member
Well, again.... Belief is a matter of choice. I choose not to believe I extra-terrestrials. I choose to believe the Bible's account of creation.
When the Holy Spirit convicts us with the Gospel, we can respond with belief or rejection.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You need not choose to believe you are sitting in your chair. And so it is with salvation, you believe or you wouldn't choose to believe or react.
GoodTidings
Well-Known Member
We act based on faith because faith is operative in nature. But belief doesn't equate with faith. Belief is not operative nature. I know sinners who believe in Jesus, who know they are going to Hell, but love their sin too much to put their faith in Jesus. They don't dispute the Gospel at all.
GoodTidings
Well-Known Member
But that is not analogous to believing the Gospel. You can believe and not act on it. Belief isn't faith. We are saved by faith, not by belief. You can believe in Jesus, but not believe Jesus.
You cannot tell a former Atheist that he believed the whole time, or else he would not have become a follower of Christ.
Rockson
Active Member
Only in a Calvinistic mind which refuses to accept the proper scriptural way that grace is meant to be understood in the NT.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If it quacks or walks like a duck, it probably is.
Another non-answer. Repentance is a work. 1689Dave says so.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
belief is the cause of corresponding actions.
according to the light of nature and the law of that religion they do profess.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
This light only condemns. ““This, then, is the judgment: The light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.” (John 3:19)
Breathe precedes breathing. Therefore you are saved before repenting.
Your logic doesn't hold because you haven't tracked a regeneration prior to belief.
The first step you need to take is deny the long list of scripture I'm giving.
John 20
31but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
John here is Liar correct? Life in his name goes first then that causes believing, correct?
Your going to have to rewrite or at least try to butcher the verse to mean something other than what it says.
So what does this verse mean, tell us.
Your logic doesn't hold because you haven't tracked a regeneration prior to belief.
The first step you need to take is deny the long list of scripture I'm giving.
John 20
31but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
John here is Liar correct? Life in his name goes first then that causes believing, correct?
Your going to have to rewrite or at least try to butcher the verse to mean something other than what it says.
So what does this verse mean, tell us.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You cannot believe unless you have the Holy Spirit. Faith is a fruit thereof.
Nope.
Bible says we believe first, and then are given the Holy Spirit.
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Eph. 1:13
Care to address the verses Utilyan and I have given you or are you just going to parrot your man-made theology?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
The bible says faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)
Try picking an apple where an apple tree does not exist.
Really, you can reject God almighty! Then what does that say about Him?
Sort of like trying to get saved with out first believing. Huh!
MB
GoodTidings
Well-Known Member
People reject him all of the time. It is not a bad reflection on Him. It is a reflection on the person rejecting him and having hardened their own heart against Him. They have rejected him to their own peril.
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