Anabaptists, Catholics and Continuing Extra-Biblical Revelation

[OfLivingWaters]

Read your post again, and see the irony this time.

What is the irony?

 

[BobRyan]

SDA?

Just found out that post was not by an SDA. The simple rule you are using may not work in all cases.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

What exactly is your understanding of prophesy? How would you define it? From my understanding it's simply speaking on behalf of God. Prophets were not fortune tellers, they were simply messengers relaying a message that God gave them. I am charismatic because I believe all the gifts of the spirit are alive and well. That includes prophesy and speaking in tongues (people speaking actual languages they did not know) . I have seen them and experienced them first hand.

Someone with the gift of prophesy doesn't necessarily make them a prophet. It also doesn't mean that their prophesy should be canonized as scripture.

1Corinthians14:13-15
Prophecy and Tongues
…13Therefore, the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15What then shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.…

I have heard people say they are praying in tongues, they did not even understand what they said. And I have been to charismatic services and the crowd didn't understand what was said and they just went along with it. I was just shaking my head , thinking "Their drinking the Kool-Aid".

Tongues is multi-faceted , but it is true that tongues are used to speak to people of multicultural back grounds , it is always fruitful.
And the recipients always knows what is being said:
The Holy Spirit at Pentecost

( Acts 2)

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

All understood what was said. And interpreting tongues is the gift to understand other languages, not interpreting babble. This was necessary because the apostles traveled to many different countries and had to know the native languages and interpret to them in that tongue.

So, if you here someone say : "I prayed in tongues" if their mind did not understand it be concerned. And if it is spoken in a "Church"
you better hope all perceived it. If all speak the same language it is not necessary.

 

[delizzle]

1Corinthians14:13-15
Prophecy and Tongues
…13Therefore, the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15What then shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.…

I have heard people say they are praying in tongues, they did not even understand what they said. And I have been to charismatic services and the crowd didn't understand what was said and they just went along with it. I was just shaking my head , thinking "Their drinking the Kool-Aid".

Tongues is multi-faceted , but it is true that tongues are used to speak to people of multicultural back grounds , it is always fruitful.
And the recipients always knows what is being said:
The Holy Spirit at Pentecost

( Acts 2)

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

All understood what was said. And interpreting tongues is the gift to understand other languages, not interpreting babble. This was necessary because the apostles traveled to many different countries and had to know the native languages and interpret to them in that tongue.

So, if you here someone say : "I prayed in tongues" if their mind did not understand it be concerned. And if it is spoken in a "Church"
you better hope all perceived it. If all speak the same language it is not necessary.

I am not talking about galilea. I am talking about bonafied speaking in tongues, as in speaking an actual language that you did not previously know or understand.

 

[BobRyan]

What exactly is your understanding of prophesy? How would you define it? From my understanding it's simply speaking on behalf of God. Prophets were not fortune tellers, they were simply messengers relaying a message that God gave them. I am charismatic because I believe all the gifts of the spirit are alive and well. That includes prophesy and speaking in tongues (people speaking actual languages they did not know) . I have seen them and experienced them first hand.

Someone with the gift of prophesy doesn't necessarily make them a prophet. It also doesn't mean that their prophesy should be canonized as scripture.

True. And Numbers 12 puts it this way


“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
I shall speak with him in a dream.
7 “Not so, with My servant Moses,
He is faithful in all My household;
8 With him I speak mouth to mouth,
Even openly, and not in dark sayings,
And he beholds the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
To speak against My servant, against Moses?”

Inspired Dreams and Visions are how God "claims" to be speaking to prophets.

And as you point out - the prophet's obligation is then to "report the news". As "the messenger" not as "the author"

 

[Yeshua1]

What do Anabaptists and Roman Catholics and NT saints in Paul's day and Charismatics and Pentecostals and ... have in common?

Firstly, they all have frameworks of Continuing Revelation.

Secondly almost all of them get falsely accused of oppose the doctrine of sola fide, anding to faith an element of works-righteousness.

It's the continuing extra-biblical revelation which I'm interested in discussing here.

Do we have any examples of any of them (even Catholics) claiming that they have extended the Bible by even one book with the prophetic messages of someone in their denomination?

Or do they all agree that the canon sealed? That is the question.

BTW "extra-Biblical" means "outside the Bible" it is "self-conflicted to argue "in the Bible extra-Biblical"

God has ONLY spoken to us in the revealed word of God, period!

 

[BobRyan]

I am not talking about galilea. I am talking about bonafied speaking in tongues, as in speaking an actual language that you did not previously know or understand.

You see that in Acts 2, and you see it in 1 Cor 14.

In the actual Bible - there is a difference between tongues and the gift of prophecy -- you can see that in 1Cor 14 as well.

But in the popular re-inventing of it - there is not much difference at all.

 

[BobRyan]

God has ONLY spoken to us in the revealed word of God, period!

Until you actually read it.

There you find many inspired prophets who never wrote a single book of the Bible.

 

[Yeshua1]

Until you actually read it.

There you find many inspired prophets who never wrote a single book of the Bible.

AL\Ll that God ever has to say to us is contained in the scriptures ALONE!@

 

[TCassidy]

Can you show me one example in scripture that specifically states that the gift of prophesy no longer exists or will cease to exist?

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will be done away with.

 

[delizzle]

God has ONLY spoken to us in the revealed word of God, period!

Show me where the Bible says it is the only source of God's word. Show me where it specifically states that an all powerful, sovereign God can only communicate with you via the Bible. Tell me how is it that the same Holy Spirit that guided Jesus Christ is now found within every Christian and yet it now remains quiet.

The truth is that not one passage can be found because it simply is not true. God speaks to us through His Spirit. For those with the gift of prophesy, God uses them to bring hope, encouragement, or conviction to those who need it.

It seems as though in this situation, it is the Calvinists and anti-charismatic who are making God small.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

I am not talking about galilea. I am talking about bonafied speaking in tongues, as in speaking an actual language that you did not previously know or understand.

Understood, what language was it?

 

[delizzle]

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will be done away with.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
1 Corinthians 13:8 NIV

I noticed where you conviently left out the rest of the verse. Does knowledge no longer exist? Did it die off with the apostles too?

Oh, and let us not ignore the following chapter!

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
1 Corinthians 14:1‭-‬5 NIV

 

[delizzle]

Understood, what language was it?

Ancient Hebrew, there was an Messianic Rabbi at the church who translated it.

 

[delizzle]

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will be done away with.

Btw...i do concede that this verse clearly states that one day, (the last day) prophesy will be silenced. But that day has not yet come.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Ancient Hebrew, there was an Messianic Rabbi at the church who translated it.

Cool.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

Btw...i do concede that this verse clearly states that one day, (the last day) prophesy will be silenced. But that day has not yet come.

I agree,because prophecy is to convert, redeem and warn. Once the number of souls are fulfilled which are God's what's left are weeds. We are told not to cast pearl before swine, prophecy is a wrap after that time. I believe the two Witnesses will be the last prophets of Israel, and the world. When they are done, I believe the time to prophesy will be complete.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

I agree,because prophecy is to convert, redeem and warn. Once the number of souls are fulfilled which are God's what's left are weeds. We are told not to cast pearl before swine, prophecy is a wrap after that time. I believe the two Witnesses will be the last prophets of Israel, and the world. When they are done, I believe the time to prophesy will be complete.

What I mean by wrap is that people will not prophesy, but biblical prophecy will continue.

 

[thatbrian]

Squirrels would certainly like this thread.

 

[OfLivingWaters]

are

Squirrels would certainly like this thread.

You trying to get a nut?