Anti-vax thugs

[SGO]

Thank you for your graciousness.

 

[Andre]

Either experts are experts or not. They agree or not. Your shrill false allegations are telling.

You are deflecting - what is really telling, of course, is that the overwhelming majority of appropriately trained experts agree that people should take the vaccine.

 

[Andre]

But you are unwilling to self-identify to answer the question "So you mean lying by Christians, right?"

What are you talking about? My answer was clear and precise. I am concerned about lying among those here who self-identify as Christians. How is that not clear? Unlike some, I am not going to make assumptions either way about the true "spiritual" status of such people.

 

[Andre]

You just admitted fraud in the counts.

False, I never admitted this - you are distorting what I said. I admitted that there were overcounts. But given the fact of undercounts as well, such overcounts do not remotely come close to "fraud".

Then you plead that maybe it balances out by some twisted reasoning that has no basis in reality. What is real is that the death counts are a crock. I suspect that the problems from getting vaccines are not reported right either.

My reasoning is correct, and you know it. And because you know my reasoning is sound, you have to resort to a simple claim - unsubstantiated by actual engagement of the content of my argument - that my logic is problematic.

The logic I am presenting is self-evidently sound: yes, there are "over-counts" - such as the guy with covid who dies in a motorcycle accident. But, and this is the part you cannot counter, there are also under-counts - the very same "rule" that leads to counting the motorcycle death as a covid death will fail to count the death of the person who factually dies of covid but does not meet the rule's criterion of having to die within 28 days of a positive covid test in order to count as a covid death.

We can get into the details of why the reporting is perfectly fair. But if we do, I would appreciate it if you would actually address what I say, and not merely dismiss my argument as you have done in your post above.

 

[Andre]

PRECISELY!!!!!

And with all the political brouhaha (both pro & anti) being spouted, unless you (generic "you") are a medical expert yourself, there is no way for you to know - which is where the guidance of the HS is required.
If you are not a Christian, it's a crap shoot!

Misleading.

We do not need to be a medical expert, nor do we need the Holy Spirit to tell us whether the vaccine is a good idea.

We know that the overwhelming majority of appropriately qualified experts promote the vaccine. Therefore, we know that we should take it. I no more need to be a medical expert to decide on the covid vaccine than I need to be an airplane safety expert to know that flying is safe.

I realize that people will get their dander up when I write that you do not need to consult the Holy Spirit about the vaccine. Well, do you ask the Holy Spirit whether you should stop smoking? Or lose excess weight? Or look both ways before crossing the street?

I politely suggest that the "I need to consult the Holy Spirit" line is simply a post-hoc rationalization of a decision that has already been made to not get the vaccine.

 

[JonC]

This is from an article @Revmitchell posted (I admit to not giving him enough credit to post articles demonstrating the effectiveness of the vaccines, which is my bad).

But it shows on the ground (not theories about the future) what many are seeing every day:


"In the last week alone, 304 undergraduates, 45 graduate students and 15 employees tested positive for COVID-19 and are isolating. All but eight of these individuals were vaccinated, and the vast majority of them were, and continue to be, asymptomatic. A small number have minor, cold- and flu-like symptoms, and none have been hospitalized."


That's 364 people....356 covid positive people who have been vaccinated and most are asymptomatic. None hospitalized.



Duke University Enhances Restrictions After COVID-19 Surge on Mostly Vaccinated Campus

 

[Andre]

You’d be looking up the open end of a shotgun barrel if you try.

And how is this either a constructive comment or even relevant?

One of the many lies from the anti Vax camp is that vaccines are being forced on people.

 

[just-want-peace]

https://www.baptistboard.com/posts/2728973/rate?rating=8&_xfToken=4924,1630959210,a2cf716d916932622002b3035eac9563374323ae

Misleading.

We do not need to be a medical expert, nor do we need the Holy Spirit to tell us whether the vaccine is a good idea.

——— I politely suggest that the "I need to consult the Holy Spirit" line is simply a post-hoc rationalization of a decision that has already been made to not get the vaccine.

https://www.baptistboard.com/posts/...9210,a2cf716d916932622002b3035eac9563374323ae

Sorry, but I’m OBVIOUSLY not as super-spiritual as you so I DO need guidance in, not only this political bug, but in many more aspects of life.
May you be comfortable in your prideful attitude!!!

Incidentally, your last comment reeks with arrogance — I have taken the vax!!!!

 

[Andre]

May you be comfortable in your prideful attitude!!!

Incidentally, your last comment reeks with arrogance

You should take responsibility for your comments - as I promise to do.

Please explain precisely how anything I have posted demonstrates either pride or arrogance.

For example, how is it "prideful" to point out the obvious truth that before crossing the road, I do not need to stop and pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Andre]

Granted, these are very small bags of nuts. I was just saying they do exist (on a previous thread a member stated there was no such groups).

Has there really been any member of government at any level who has advocated forced vaccinations? I am not aware of any. Of course, I do not doubt that there are private citizens who would advocate for enforced vaccination of all.

But what really matters, in my opinion, is whether this idea of forced vaccination is being considered by those in authority.

And I am skeptical that there is anything like this on the table.

 

[JonC]

Has there really been any member of government at any level who has advocated forced vaccinations? I am not aware of any. Of course, I do not doubt that there are private citizens who would advocate for enforced vaccination of all.

But what really matters, in my opinion, is whether this idea of forced vaccination is being considered by those in authority.

And I am skeptical that there is anything like this on the table.

Almost. Sen. Bill Cassidy (Republican) insists vaccines should be manditory for everybody with the provision those who do not get vaccinated suffer the consequences by abstaining from public life where they can infect others.

"Cassidy, a gastroenterologist, fired back during his testimony, arguing that those exercising their liberty to not get vaccinated should pay the price of not being allowed to expose others and potentially put them at risk.

"The requirement is just that you cannot enter school unless you're vaccinated," Cassidy said. "Now, if you're such a believer in liberty that you do not wish to be vaccinated, then there should be a consequence, and that is that you cannot infect other people."

"If you believe in liberty, that's fine, don't get immunized. But I don't think you need to necessarily expose others to disease," he added."

GOP senator defends mandatory vaccinations after Paul says they're inconsistent with liberty | CNN Politics

 

[SGO]

What are you talking about? My answer was clear and precise. I am concerned about lying among those here who self-identify as Christians. How is that not clear? Unlike some, I am not going to make assumptions either way about the true "spiritual" status of such people.

Not clear.

In this thread alone:

"You are deflecting"

"And I am skeptical that there is anything like this"

"I do not need to stop and pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit."

"nor do we need the Holy Spirit to tell us whether the vaccine is a good idea."

"One of the many lies"

"False"

"Well, here is one such lie:"

"It seems to me that you are setting yourself up as an expert in medical matters that are as above your pay grade"

"this is deeply misleading."

"that kind of reasoning, while appealing to the uncritical thinker, is clearly not valid "

"the willingness of those opposed to the Covid vaccine to systematically and consistently lie."

 

[Andre]

Not clear.

In this thread alone:

"You are deflecting"

"And I am skeptical that there is anything like this"

"I do not need to stop and pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit."

"nor do we need the Holy Spirit to tell us whether the vaccine is a good idea."

"One of the many lies"

"False"

"Well, here is one such lie:"

"It seems to me that you are setting yourself up as an expert in medical matters that are as above your pay grade"

"this is deeply misleading."

"that kind of reasoning, while appealing to the uncritical thinker, is clearly not valid "

"the willingness of those opposed to the Covid vaccine to systematically and consistently lie."

Please explain how any of my statements are either false or otherwise inappropriate.

 

[Andre]

"I do not need to stop and pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit."

Where did you get this quote that you attribute to me from? Which thread / post please?

 

[SGO]

Please explain how any of my statements are either false or otherwise inappropriate.

You have stopped short of calling your Christian brothers liars outright but these are samples of where you come close.

"I am concerned about lying among those here who self-identify as Christians. How is that not clear?"

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I

And how is this either a constructive comment or even relevant?

One of the many lies from the anti Vax camp is that vaccines are being forced on people.

its a shell well spent... try me frog man.

 

[dad2]

You are deflecting - what is really telling, of course, is that the overwhelming majority of appropriately trained experts agree that people should take the vaccine.

This may come as a shock, but some of us do not believe them. Which part of 'NO' do they not comprehend? There are conflicting voices, and many of us simply do not want to volunteer or be forced to be guinea pigs. Period. Gates and Fauci and Biden and Trudeau can go whistle in the wind. No thank you.

 

[dad2]

Has there really been any member of government at any level who has advocated forced vaccinations? I am not aware of any. Of course, I do not doubt that there are private citizens who would advocate for enforced vaccination of all.

But what really matters, in my opinion, is whether this idea of forced vaccination is being considered by those in authority.

And I am skeptical that there is anything like this on the table.

When people fire you unless you get vaxxed that is forcing you. When they do not allow you to play with the other reindeer in the reindeer games, that is, for some people, forcing them. When you are in an armed force that says you must get it now, that is force. When some province or state says that all must have passports to do many basic things in life, and that there are no exemptions, that is force. Etc. The direction is clear. Many are calling for mandatory shots, period.

 

[JonC]

This may come as a shock, but some of us do not believe them. Which part of 'NO' do they not comprehend? There are conflicting voices, and many of us simply do not want to volunteer or be forced to be guinea pigs. Period. Gates and Fauci and Biden and Trudeau can go whistle in the wind. No thank you.

The guinea pig argument lost validity about 8 months ago.

 

[JonC]

When people fire you unless you get vaxxed that is forcing you.

No, it isn't.