Appointed To Eternal Life?

[Hazelelponi]

God is saying that He will make a new covenant with those Jews who come to trust in Him as their savior. Because they have trusted in Him He can be merciful to them

^^^ the direct quote from you that I criticized. I did in no wise disagree with or criticize the Holy Scriptures, the word of God. God forbid.

YOUR words which I above quoted for the second time just created a weak, ineffectual God who can't save. An idol at best, it's a God without power.

First issue I have is that you gave your explanation equal weight with God's own words when you said "God says" And then followed it with your own words and not God's. That's presenting a lie.

God is merciul, there's no "if", "when" or "because". God is not impaired from showing mercy until a person does something, God is simply merciful to those He shows mercy to:

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus ... For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:4-8

This is very definite. This is not like as you said: " God was able to extend mercy to us because we trusted Him"

There's a HUGE difference in language between what you said and what the Bible says in regard to God's Mercy. Night and day.

You just made salvation a wage, we do this so God will do that. But that's not the New Covenant in Christ's blood and Christ is quite clear we are not wage earners in Matthew 20:1-16

Christ died to save His people. Not to hopefully maybe save if people decide they really like Him enough..... His blood saved, past tense and in the definitive and we know this because of the Ressurection. It is indeed finished.

If your God requires x, y, and z in order to to save you he's not a God. God either CAN save, or he's at the mercy of mankind to save themselves and His blood accounted for nothing. Your presenting the later.

If you want to lead people to Christ you need to first have a God that's not impotent.

My God is not an impotent God. My God, being rich in Mercy, reached down from heaven and saved me and gave me the gift of eternal life. I believed in His name because He gave me the gift of faith.

As far as the Bible verses you quoted from Jeremiah, I agree with them. That's the Covenant I'm under, I live it daily so I'm pretty solid on what it says.

It also presented not one indefinite article. God takes us, and saves us. Period. There's no exchange shown.

Yes believers are regenerated/born again after they respond to the Gospel in faith not before.

Disagree. The Bible clearly shows regeneration prior to being saved.

Not philosophy just reading what the text says.

Clearly you're not.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

First issue I have is that you gave your explanation equal weight with God's own words when you said "God says"

And then followed it with your own words and not God's. That's presenting a lie.

This whole dress down is truly beautiful and Exalting to The Lord!!!

Very, very, very, very, very GOD-HONORING!!!

Thank you, Hazelelponi: !!!

Way to Worship the Lord!!!

(Check this one out THANK YOU, FOR LOVING JESUS !!!!!!!!!

 

[Silverhair]

^^^ the direct quote from you that I criticized. I did in no wise disagree with or criticize the Holy Scriptures, the word of God. God forbid.

YOUR words which I above quoted for the second time just created a weak, ineffectual God who can't save. An idol at best, it's a God without power.

First issue I have is that you gave your explanation equal weight with God's own words when you said "God says" And then followed it with your own words and not God's. That's presenting a lie.

God is merciul, there's no "if", "when" or "because". God is not impaired from showing mercy until a person does something, God is simply merciful to those He shows mercy to:

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus ... For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:4-8

This is very definite. This is not like as you said: " God was able to extend mercy to us because we trusted Him"

There's a HUGE difference in language between what you said and what the Bible says in regard to God's Mercy. Night and day.

You just made salvation a wage, we do this so God will do that. But that's not the New Covenant in Christ's blood and Christ is quite clear we are not wage earners in Matthew 20:1-16

Christ died to save His people. Not to hopefully maybe save if people decide they really like Him enough..... His blood saved, past tense and in the definitive and we know this because of the Ressurection. It is indeed finished.

If your God requires x, y, and z in order to to save you he's not a God. God either CAN save, or he's at the mercy of mankind to save themselves and His blood accounted for nothing. Your presenting the later.

If you want to lead people to Christ you need to first have a God that's not impotent.

My God is not an impotent God. My God, being rich in Mercy, reached down from heaven and saved me and gave me the gift of eternal life. I believed in His name because He gave me the gift of faith.

As far as the Bible verses you quoted from Jeremiah, I agree with them. That's the Covenant I'm under, I live it daily so I'm pretty solid on what it says.

It also presented not one indefinite article. God takes us, and saves us. Period. There's no exchange shown.




Disagree. The Bible clearly shows regeneration prior to being saved.



Clearly you're not.

When you get past your cage stage calvinism you may actually come to understand scripture as it is written.

It is sad that you have chosen to ignore what God has said and instead hold to your determinism. You and Brightframe52 do suit each other.

You trot out the same old lines that most calvinists do in the attempt to support your view.

I have been down this road with BF and really have no intention of doing so again.

 

[Hazelelponi]

When you get past your cage stage calvinism you may actually come to understand scripture as it is written.

I checked to see what "cage stage Calvinism" was and the AI overview gave me this:

"overly zealous and argumentative approach to spreading Calvinistic theology, often characterized by intolerance and a lack of humility, rather than a genuine heart for love and understanding."

First off, this is offensive and demeaning of another person's faith.

You don't know me, my history, or anything at all about me .. I have made two posts your direction on this forum, and for that I'm being personally attacked- not for what I said, but for who/what you decided I am.

Am I zealous for God? Yes .. I would die for this faith, a faith God gave me.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

"overly zealous and argumentative approach to spreading Calvinistic theology,

often characterized by intolerance and a lack of humility, rather than a genuine heart for love and understanding."

"cage stage Calvinism"

They don't have to go to all that trouble to just say that they do not believe The Doctrines of Grace.

And, I do believe that is what you have already pointed out, quite clearly, several times.

Basically, like, "you don't believe the Bible. O.K.": OR, that he's "wise and prudent", to be nice, like Jesus.

An idol at best, it's a God without power.

you said "God says" And then followed it with your own words and not God's. That's presenting a lie.

God is merciul, there's no "if", "when" or "because".

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:4-8

This is not like as you said: " God was able to extend mercy to us because we trusted Him"

There's a HUGE difference in language between what you said and what the Bible says

You just made salvation a wage, we do this so God will do that.

Christ died to save His people. Not to hopefully maybe save if people decide they really like Him enough

If your God requires x, y, and z in order to to save you he's not a God.

God either CAN save, or he's at the mercy of mankind to save themselves and His blood accounted for nothing. Your presenting the later.

If you want to lead people to Christ you need to first have a God that's not impotent.

God takes us, and saves us. Period. There's no exchange shown.

"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank Tee, O Father, Lord of Heaven and Earth,
because Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes." Matthew 11:25.

 

[Silverhair]

I checked to see what "cage stage Calvinism" was and the AI overview gave me this:

"overly zealous and argumentative approach to spreading Calvinistic theology, often characterized by intolerance and a lack of humility, rather than a genuine heart for love and understanding."

First off, this is offensive and demeaning of another person's faith.

You don't know me, my history, or anything at all about me .. I have made two posts your direction on this forum, and for that I'm being personally attacked- not for what I said, but for who/what you decided I am.

Am I zealous for God? Yes .. I would die for this faith, a faith God gave me.

^^^ the direct quote from you that I criticized. I did in no wise disagree with or criticize the Holy Scriptures, the word of God. God forbid.

YOUR words which I above quoted for the second time just created a weak, ineffectual God who can't save. An idol at best, it's a God without power.

First issue I have is that you gave your explanation equal weight with God's own words when you said "God says" And then followed it with your own words and not God's. That's presenting a lie.

God is merciul, there's no "if", "when" or "because". God is not impaired from showing mercy until a person does something, God is simply merciful to those He shows mercy to:

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ — by grace you have been saved — and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus ... For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:4-8

This is very definite. This is not like as you said: " God was able to extend mercy to us because we trusted Him"

There's a HUGE difference in language between what you said and what the Bible says in regard to God's Mercy. Night and day.

You just made salvation a wage, we do this so God will do that. But that's not the New Covenant in Christ's blood and Christ is quite clear we are not wage earners in Matthew 20:1-16

Christ died to save His people. Not to hopefully maybe save if people decide they really like Him enough..... His blood saved, past tense and in the definitive and we know this because of the Ressurection. It is indeed finished.

If your God requires x, y, and z in order to to save you he's not a God. God either CAN save, or he's at the mercy of mankind to save themselves and His blood accounted for nothing. Your presenting the later.

If you want to lead people to Christ you need to first have a God that's not impotent.

My God is not an impotent God. My God, being rich in Mercy, reached down from heaven and saved me and gave me the gift of eternal life. I believed in His name because He gave me the gift of faith.

As far as the Bible verses you quoted from Jeremiah, I agree with them. That's the Covenant I'm under, I live it daily so I'm pretty solid on what it says.

It also presented not one indefinite article. God takes us, and saves us. Period. There's no exchange shown.




Disagree. The Bible clearly shows regeneration prior to being saved.



Clearly you're not.

Strange you say your not a cage stage calvinist but you respond like one with all the go to lines.

You say "The Bible clearly shows regeneration prior to being saved." but provide not clear scripture to back that up.

You say faith is a wage but scripture disagrees with you
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Faith is not a wage but it is a condition of salvation
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

No faith no salvation. That is something that calvinists always get wrong.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Faith is not a wage but it is a condition of salvation

This is the false gospel of works, making faith a condition for salvation, which scripture never does.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



This is the false gospel of works, making faith a condition for salvation, which scripture never does.

Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

I understand that you just cannot accept the fact that God set a condition for one's salvation but there it is in clear text.

You will jump through hoops in your vain attempt to deny what the bible says but the truth is right there in clear text.

Why do you continue to deny what the bible shows you?

Why are you so committed to your man-made philosophy?

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

You will continue to deny what is right in front of you but the truth is the truth.

 

[Brightfame52]

Act 16:30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

I understand that you just cannot accept the fact that God set a condition for one's salvation but there it is in clear text.

You will jump through hoops in your vain attempt to deny what the bible says but the truth is right there in clear text.

Why do you continue to deny what the bible shows you?

Why are you so committed to your man-made philosophy?

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Rom 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

You will continue to deny what is right in front of you but the truth is the truth.

Not one of those scriptures say Believing or Faith is a condition for salvation, thats a false gospel of works from your mind.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I checked to see what "cage stage Calvinism" was and the AI overview gave me this:

"overly zealous and argumentative approach to spreading Calvinistic theology, often characterized by intolerance and a lack of humility, rather than a genuine heart for love and understanding."

First off, this is offensive and demeaning of another person's faith.

You don't know me, my history, or anything at all about me .. I have made two posts your direction on this forum, and for that I'm being personally attacked- not for what I said, but for who/what you decided I am.

Am I zealous for God? Yes .. I would die for this faith, a faith God gave me.

Good for you, let him have it with both barrels.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Eph 2:8
Eph 2:9

Strange you say your not a cage stage calvinist but you respond like one with all the go to lines.

I don't know, maybe because I was saved 10 years ago. (aka new Christian) Plus, I genuinely care about my faith.

My reading materials in the last 10 years are from Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology; Jesus and Israel; One Covenant or Two; Kim Riddlebarger's A Case for Amillennialism The Christian in Complete Armour Vol. 1 by William Gurnall and Pilgrims Progress (of course).

Plus I have just started a study group - we are reading Calvin's Institutes in a year. (A Monday - Friday reading plan.)

That's all I have had time for these last 10 years, though I could have been more dedicated about it.

But, as I earlier believe I told someone on this forum, I have just been enjoying being Christian really, so taking things slow. Digesting everything at my own pace.

You say "The Bible clearly shows regeneration prior to being saved." but provide not clear scripture to back that up.

You say faith is a wage but scripture disagrees with you
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I did that already, and so have you. "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"

When we share the Gospel, we are ending the Gospel presentation with a call. It's a call to believe and confess in Jesus Christ.

It's not an invitation to salvation, It's a command for the elect to come. Believe and Confess. Definitive.

("Come out of her, my people" Revelation 18:4 Definitive )

Jesus said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37).

Christ assures His disciples and all who hear Him, that all the elect given Him by the Father, will and do, in fact, come to Him.

But as you yourself already made careful note of, it's a gift from God. God is commanding a creation that already belongs to Him, they just didn't accept it until they come at the call.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Why do you try to limit God?

It is you who limit God. According to you, He desires every single person to come to salvation, but He just can't seem to manage it. Poor God!

 

[Brightfame52]

It is you who limit God. According to you, He desires every single person to come to salvation, but He just can't seem to manage it. Poor God!

He believes Gods desire is thwarted by man Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

 

[Silverhair]

I don't know, maybe because I was saved 10 years ago. (aka new Christian) Plus, I genuinely care about my faith.

My reading materials in the last 10 years are from Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology; Jesus and Israel; One Covenant or Two; Kim Riddlebarger's A Case for Amillennialism The Christian in Complete Armour Vol. 1 by William Gurnall and Pilgrims Progress (of course).

Plus I have just started a study group - we are reading Calvin's Institutes in a year. (A Monday - Friday reading plan.)

That's all I have had time for these last 10 years, though I could have been more dedicated about it.

But, as I earlier believe I told someone on this forum, I have just been enjoying being Christian really, so taking things slow. Digesting everything at my own pace.



I did that already, and so have you. "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"

When we share the Gospel, we are ending the Gospel presentation with a call. It's a call to believe and confess in Jesus Christ.

It's not an invitation to salvation, It's a command for the elect to come. Believe and Confess. Definitive.

("Come out of her, my people" Revelation 18:4 Definitive )

Jesus said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” (John 6:37).

Christ assures His disciples and all who hear Him, that all the elect given Him by the Father, will and do, in fact, come to Him.

But as you yourself already made careful note of, it's a gift from God. God is commanding a creation that already belongs to Him, they just didn't accept it until they come at the call.

The gospel is an invitation to believe and confess Jesus Christ as savior.

The gift from God is salvation and you would know that if you actually looked at the Greek. But as you said you have read Grudem and now you are going to study Calvin. So you just show that it is not the bible you are trusting but some man.

If you had spent as much time studying scripture as you have calvinist philosophy you would not have so many errant views.

 

[Silverhair]

It is you who limit God. According to you, He desires every single person to come to salvation, but He just can't seem to manage it. Poor God!

So you disagree with the bible. God desire that all come to repentance but will not force them to do so, He's not a calvinist.

It is sad that you keep missing the truth of scripture.

 

[David Lamb]

So you disagree with the bible. God desire that all come to repentance but will not force them to do so, He's not a calvinist.

It is sad that you keep missing the truth of scripture.

What in Martin Marprelate's post disagrees with the bible? In the bible, we read:

“"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” (Joh 6:37 NKJV)

“"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.” (Joh 10:26 NKJV)

“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),” (Eph 2:1-5 NKJV)

Martin (as far as I am aware) has never said that God forces anybody to repent. He does enable sinners to do so though. Expecting a sinner dead in trespasses and sins to repent and believe without God's enabling is as nonsensical as imagining that Lazarus of Bethany, in his tomb, could have asked Jesus to raise him to life.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

The gospel is an invitation to believe and confess Jesus Christ as savior.

Yes to the saved. Not to them who are perishing. To them its foolishness 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

And to the saved, the Gospel is more than a invite, its a powerful conversion experience.

 

[Silverhair]

What in Martin Marprelate's post disagrees with the bible? In the bible, we read:

“"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” (Joh 6:37 NKJV)

“"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.” (Joh 10:26 NKJV)

“And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),” (Eph 2:1-5 NKJV)

Martin (as far as I am aware) has never said that God forces anybody to repent. He does enable sinners to do so though. Expecting a sinner dead in trespasses and sins to repent and believe without God's enabling is as nonsensical as imagining that Lazarus of Bethany, in his tomb, could have asked Jesus to raise him to life.

It is you who limit God. According to you, He desires every single person to come to salvation, but He just can't seem to manage it. Poor God!

1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

That is God's desire so we have two options

1] God can't actually accomplish what He wants
2] God has set a condition for man to be saved

Since we know that God being sovereign can do as He pleases that eliminates option 1

So we are left with option 2
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes,

So Martins comment of "He just can't seem to manage it. Poor God!" was disingenuous.

Martin's comments did disagree with scripture as he well knows.

We are not dead like Lazarus as then we would not even be able to sin. So why calvinist continue to trot out that trope is questionable.

But the bible is clear that God expects man to be able to respond to the gospel message or why would He have commanded us to preach that message wherever we went?

Christ seemed to think man could respond
Joh 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
And the Holy Spirit also got into the action
Joh 16:8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
And so did the Father
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

And what is man responsibility in regard to his salvation
Those respond with faith will be saved
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

So again Martin and it seems you, have a problem with scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Yes to the saved. Not to them who are perishing. To them its foolishness 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

And to the saved, the Gospel is more than a invite, its a powerful conversion experience.

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

 

[Brightfame52]

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

Yes to the saved. Not to them who are perishing. To them its foolishness 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.