Are all already condemned by God, or ONLY after rejecting Christ?

[Aaron]

This is the issue.

Faith is not something that you conjure up or bring to pass.

True.

It is something that happens to you. This is true of any kind of faith.

I went to bed last night and slept soundly because I have faith in gravity. I am not worried that the centripetal force of the spinning of the planet is going to hurl me and mine into outer space.

I did not CHOOSE to put trust in gravity. Gravity revealed itself to me repeatedly and constantly until I HAD NO CHOICE BUT to believe in it.

I cannot choose NOT to believe in it.

True

Faith is not a funcition you perform. It is something that happens to you.

This isn't what I was saying. Faith is an operation of one's spirit, like breathing is an operation of one's body. No one chooses to breathe, and if he chose to quit breathing, he would soon pass out and his body would begin breathing quite contrary to his will, and he would wake up the wiser—maybe.

According to dawg, et al, faith is a work of the flesh, and, therefore, those who are weak in the flesh cannot exercise it. Infants enter heaven because of a condition of their flesh.

Now, those who reach the ficticious age of accountability can operate it, and choose not to do so. Some do. Therefore some are more meritorious than others and are saved accordingly. Again, heaven is entered by a work of the flesh.

 

[webdog]

So when does one become a homosexual?

Not relevant to this discussion. I don't know either, none of us do.

 

[webdog]

Faith isn't some mystical entity bestowed on someone, it is simply trusting in someone or something. This is what the Bible teaches, it never teaches to the contrary.

You all sound like new age, hocus pocus theologians.

 

[convicted1]

God opened my eyes to being lost, ready to be cast into hell the very instant I died. He showed this to me when I was 15, yet I wasn't saved until I was 36. He gave me faith, and the abilty to see I was lost, but I failed to trust Him because I wanted to live my life my way.

 

[Iconoclast]

All the aorist tense does is point to an action having been completed at a prior point in time, like my skating analogy. The people understanding and reading Paul's words are the context.

That is correct.They All sinned in Adam unlike your skating analogy.Paul did not use your analogy...he used the fall.:thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

HeirofSalvation

Winman is no Theologian....he is NOT the most Brilliant commentator I've ever known...he isn't a genius.....

Oh, he makes some mistakes....

:thumbs::applause::thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

Where does it state we all sinned in Adam? I read where we all die in Adam. But sinned in Adam? I never read it worded that way.

 

[convicted1]

HeirofSalvation

:thumbs::applause::thumbs:

Good....nice way to rip another Brother's post apart.......

 

[Iconoclast]

Winman

If Romans 3:23 is saying all men sinned in Adam, then why has NO Bible translator ever translated the scriptures to
say that.

They did not need to.The verse can be translated that way in the english and still convey the idea.To study the verses requires seeing what they actual said when written.

Not one of these versions mentions Adam

.

Paul builds his case and leads up to Adam when he describes how all the world sinned...they sinned in Adam at the fall.....sin and death passed upon all men...all sinned at that time.

Wouldn't it be reasonable

The Holy Spirit did not feel the need to consult you or Hos, or webdog, before he had paul write the truth about mankinds fall in Adam.....

He was not needing you to speculate upon what you think might have been reasonable.

if this verse is really teaching that all persons sinned in Adam at one point in time that a translator would say that? How can you explain that all these translators left out this very important detail?

Obviously the translators were not thinking of those who would come along and attempt to pervert the clear teaching of the verses.

None of the many hundreds of scholars who translated these many versions of scripture say that all men sinned in Adam at one point in time.

I gave a list of those who examined the text...they say it very clearly.You will not find anyone ,with the possible exception of a Unitarian,lesbian "minister" ,or maybe a Bahai...who denies the fall.

 

[HisWitness]

Where does it state we all sinned in Adam? I read where we all die in Adam. But sinned in Adam? I never read it worded that way.

the scripture says that ALL were MADE Sinners through adam--God placed mankind as Sinners--even though they had not sinned after the transgression of adam--where there is no law,how can there be sin?the people after adam were not in the garden,so they could not break the law of God that was given to Adam--but they were all Sinners through adam--and therefore that's why ALL men commit sin is because they are Sinners--doesn't state that we sinned through adam--states that we were made sinners through adam--so therefore we sin :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[percho]

This is the issue.

Faith is not something that you conjure up or bring to pass.

It is something that happens to you. This is true of any kind of faith.

I went to bed last night and slept soundly because I have faith in gravity. I am not worried that the centripetal force of the spinning of the planet is going to hurl me and mine into outer space.

I did not CHOOSE to put trust in gravity. Gravity revealed itself to me repeatedly and constantly until I HAD NO CHOICE BUT to believe in it.

I cannot choose NOT to believe in it.

Faith is not a funcition you perform. It is something that happens to you.

I will try. The trees are hiding the forest.

The righteousness of God is imputed to whom God wills through the faith of Jesus Christ by which the Holy Spirit was received and given whom God wills, as earnest and which will save you at the appearing again of Jesus from the death brought to you by the sin of Adam.

The sin of Adam separated him from God and initiated death which comes in the flesh to the person, soul. That is why it stated as, in dying thou shall surly die or as Young put it, "dying thou dost die." Christ died in the flesh. When the sin of the world fell upon him Christ was separated from his Father and he cried out My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me, into thy hands I commend my spirit and he died in the flesh. Jesus the Christ was dead. The death the sin of Adam brought upon all men.

Jesus was dead for ever and ever and you would still be in your sins if God the Father by His grace had not raised Jesus from the dead.

Eph. 2:8 is not about you believing something receiving the grace of God because you believe.

Eph 2:8 is what God the Father did in response to what Jesus the Son did whereby God can save you from the death brought to you by the sin of Adam.
Dying in the flesh.

Read closely 1 Peter 1:2-9 which begins with the word Elect meaning God choose. Those verses will say the very exact same thing I have written above.

Read the whole 1 chapter. The forest is there.

Here is one verse in that chapter that says all I wrote above.

21 Who by him (Jesus the Christ) do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[Iconoclast]

Where does it state we all sinned in Adam? I read where we all die in Adam. But sinned in Adam? I never read it worded that way.

See the earlier post where it is shown very clearly.

Good....nice way to rip another Brother's post apart.......

Yes Willis...i was trying to find those parts of the post i could agree with:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

the scripture says that ALL were MADE Sinners through adam--God placed mankind as Sinners--even though they had not sinned after the transgression of adam--where there is no law,how can there be sin?the people after adam were not in the garden,so they could not break the law of God that was given to Adam--but they were all Sinners through adam--and therefore that's why ALL men commit sin is because they are Sinners--doesn't state that we sinned through adam--states that we were made sinners through adam--so therefore we sin :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Verses where it explicitly states we sinned in Adam, please. Show, with scripture(s) where Adam's sin was passed down to us. It said that concerning death being passed, but Adam's sin being passed down to us?

 

[HisWitness]

Verses where it explicitly states we sinned in Adam, please. Show, with scripture(s) where Adam's sin was passed down to us. It said that concerning death being passed, but Adam's sin being passed down to us?

what do you think the ALL WERE MADE SINNERS is referred to ?

 

[convicted1]

See the earlier post where it is shown very clearly.



Yes Willis...i was trying to find those parts of the post i could agree with:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

No Brother Icon, it doesn't say we sinned it Adam. It doesn't even say we died in Adam. It states that in Adam, all will die. Adam's sin ushered in the "sentence of death" upon every living creature. But Adam's sin didn't cause me to be born an active sinner, yet alone, created in the womb.

 

[convicted1]

what do you think the ALL WERE MADE SINNERS is referred to ?

Point them out to me, and I'll shoot'em down like a rifle at the carnival.

And don't use your pet verses such as Psalam 51:5, and 58:3, and Romans 3:23, because I already addressed them in an earlier post.

 

[Iconoclast]

No, no they don't.

And you would be just as mean as them if you had someone's hand up your backside telling you every word to say.

So, don't worry, I can handle this guy. :thumbsup:

Originally Posted by Winman View Post
But guys like Icon do not listen to scripture, they believe creeds written by men.

Good one Winman:laugh::laugh:

So not only have you posted this image in jest, and spoken against Cathechisms, confessions and creeds once again...but you have also revealed the source of many of your interpretations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU

 

[HisWitness]

Point them out to me, and I'll shoot'em down like a rifle at the carnival.

And don't use your pet verses such as Psalam 51:5, and 58:3, and Romans 3:23, because I already addressed them in an earlier post.

here again--your line of thinking is only going to lead to the WORKS of man instead of the GRACE of God friend---its either Grace or Works--God held ALL under Condemnation so that he might have MERCY upon ALL-that's grace.

 

[percho]

what do you think the ALL WERE MADE SINNERS is referred to ?

It really does not matter.

According to the word of God the only man who was ever born of woman and was innocent, died because the first man created in the image of God,
Sinned.

 

[convicted1]

Psa. 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Now, HW, if Psa 51:5 should be taken literal, then so should verse 7. If so, then hyssop would have cleansed David, too.

You need to brush up on the differences between figurative and literal languages....it would help you immensely.....