are Altar calls even biblical?

[saturneptune]

Altar calls are not shown as an example in the Bible, but neither are they prohibited. That is kind of like using electricity in churches. Having spent 25 years in a Presbyterian Church, with no altar call, on balance, I am in favor of their presence. In a Presbyterian Church, the sermon ends, the choir sings a choral refrain, a prayer is said and everyone leaves. Thats it. There have been many threads on the problems of altar calls with the manipulation, but on balance, as I said, I would rather have them. Altar calls do not have to be abused.

I have been to Baptist or Protestant services in England, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Egypt, and Scotland to mention a few, and some have altar calls and some do not. That really does not have much to do with the United States. In fact the altar call is up to the given local church. Our church, for example, has always had one and always will.

As far as joining our church, it is done like the churches in Acts, that "they were added daily." We have no communicant's class, no memorizing of by laws, no probation period, etc. Then again, that is probably another thread.

 

[Revmitchell]

Can a calvinist br really treated "fairly' by those who think its unbiblical doctrineto hold though?

I suppose the answer to that question can be found by asking it in reverse.

 

[Greektim]

For those interested... I read a recent blog article from Southeastern's faculty blog that gave an interesting response to the OP: http://betweenthetimes.com/index.php/2013/04/10/some-thoughts-on-altar-calls/

You may be surprised... I was.

 

[Revmitchell]

For those interested... I read a recent blog article from Southeastern's faculty blog that gave an interesting response to the OP: http://betweenthetimes.com/index.php/2013/04/10/some-thoughts-on-altar-calls/

You may be surprised... I was.

The author is right in that it is inappropriate to paint the practice by its abuses as if the abuses are the normative practice in order to discredit it.

 

[Tom Butler]

For those interested... I read a recent blog article from Southeastern's faculty blog that gave an interesting response to the OP: http://betweenthetimes.com/index.php/2013/04/10/some-thoughts-on-altar-calls/

You may be surprised... I was.

Nathan Finn's view closely parallel's my own.

My concern has never been its use. My concern has been its abuse.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Who is the nucklehead who wrote this?

 

[Iconoclast]

Revmitchell

Just because the cal does not like the "caricature" does not make it weak or wrong.

No..it does not have to be so...however....

However, I always try to be as true to stated beliefs as possible.

This is the proper course of action for all believers.

But when characterizing error it can be difficult to do so in a way that pleases the one with the error.

:laugh: Yes...I recently saw that in the other thread:laugh:
I like how the 1689 words this on predestination....

7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )

 

[Tom Butler]

Who is the nucklehead who wrote this?

Dr, Nathan Finn is Professor of Historical Theology and Baptist Studies at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.

He is also one of the pastors of FBC Durham, North Carolina, and teaches a Sunday School Class on systematic theology.

He is a prolific writer, and widely respected.

For more, go here:http://apps.sebts.edu/FacultyInfo/FacultyPage.cfm?id=)#*W"R_W!I*%2 &type=F

 

[HAMel]

are Altar calls even biblical?

I wonder if it really makes any difference?

 

[Yeshua1]

I suppose the answer to that question can be found by asking it in reverse.

It was meant as a general statement, as you are not as anti rabid calvinist as some here that post seem to be!

 

[Yeshua1]

Nathan Finn's view closely parallel's my own.

My concern has never been its use. My concern has been its abuse.

my biggest concern is that we seem to be saying thru it that the sinner can 'accept jesus in his heart" whatever that means, and that many think that is all that is required to get right with God, that they just lean on that one time experience way back yonder as being OK with God now!

It also heavily leans upon 'free will" ability/response by those who hear the invitation!

 

[salzer mtn]

I was raised up in churches that gave altar calls. The main reason the practice of the altar call invitations is still in use is because the belief of a sinner showing repentance and humbleness by coming to the front and praying, and It is a opposite of easy believism to some churches because these people believe when God saves you he then and there witnesess to your soul by the Holy Spirit, 1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 1 John 3:24 And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 3:2 Recieved ye the Spirit by the works of the law or the hearing of faith? 1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body. Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. St. John 3:5 Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit he cannot see the kingdom of God. St. Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than i, whose shoes i am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

 

[saturneptune]

I was raised up in churches that gave altar calls. The main reason the practice of the altar call invitations is still in use is because the belief of a sinner showing repentance and humbleness by coming to the front and praying, and It is a opposite of easy believism to some churches because these people believe when God saves you he then and there witnesess to your soul by the Holy Spirit, 1 John 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 1 John 3:24 And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 3:2 Recieved ye the Spirit by the works of the law or the hearing of faith? 1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body. Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. St. John 3:5 Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit he cannot see the kingdom of God. St. Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than i, whose shoes i am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.

This might be one of those issues that my memories of the Presbyterian Church skew my perception. However, as I said above, I can remember until age 25, monotone sermons, followed by a short prayer. Then, while heads are still bowed, there is a choral response. At that point, there is some type of marching music, as everyone left like wind up robots, stoic, silently, and without, comment.

Altar calls were a breath of fresh air when I first became a Baptist. Over the years, the abuses of the altar call have become clear. However, if one compares the two systems of leaving a service, then altar calls without being abused or manipulated come out way ahead IMO.

Also, the way one joined the Presbyterian Church, in most cases, was, at around age 10-12, one would go to a several week communicant's class. In the class, one learns to memorize a series of theological questions, such as "what is the chief end of man?" Then, at some divine point in time, the glorious session of elders votes on whether you are worthy to come before the church to join. Then, on that given Sunday, we are strolled out in front of the congregation, and asked to repeat several answers to the questions. Then we are declared members of the church.

Now, for all its faults, compare that to a Baptist reception of members, usually by three methods, transfer of letter (from another church of like faith and order), profession of faith in Jesus Christ, or by statement. To me, the differrence is glaring. Membership is tied to faith in Jesus Christ, not to a series of memorized questions, even though some of the questions to relate to Christ. What are the chances an 11 year old kid who was forced to go to a class he or she did not want to go to in the first place had a saving experience by memorizing a question?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ain't church wonderful:love2:

 

[Salty]

What are the chances an 11 year old kid who was forced to go to a class he or she did not want to go to in the first place had a saving experience by memorizing a question?

A child should not "just memorize" the answers!

How many boys can give you the stats of the top ten pitchers. How many girls can give you all the personal info of the major movie and TV stars.

I do support the notion of a prospectiv member understaning the basics of Baptist doctirne. I do not think it is unreasonable to have someone attend a 13 week course. I found this study guide on the web. It looks very good. Our church is in the midst of making a policy on membership. I may use this as a basic guide - with some modifications.

The reason I do like 13 weeks is that those who are truly committed will enjoy this time of learning - especially those who are new Christians.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

13 Weeks to do what?

 

[saturneptune]

Ain't church wonderful:love2:

I do think your ministry as described in your posts is where daily life meets a face to face encounter with Jesus Christ. One gets the sense that ministries like yours take situations that we find in people's lives, especially on the lower economic and social rung of the ladder, lead people with the guidance of the Holy Spirit to an abiding faith in Christ that make a permanent difference in the lives of those who have never experienced the love of God. This is where the rubber meets the road, and produces real change. Jesus is the answer to changed lives, families, and in fact, a changed nation.

EWF, you are truly blessed, as my perception is that you are light years ahead of the rich and famous established churches in making a change in a lost and dying world. My prayer is for continued success in your ministry and being used by the Lord to bring hope to those who are desperately seeking an answer to life's downside.

 

[saturneptune]

A child should not "just memorize" the answers!

How many boys can give you the stats of the top ten pitchers. How many girls can give you all the personal info of the major movie and TV stars.

I do support the notion of a prospectiv member understaning the basics of Baptist doctirne. I do not think it is unreasonable to have someone attend a 13 week course. I found this study guide on the web. It looks very good. Our church is in the midst of making a policy on membership. I may use this as a basic guide - with some modifications.

The reason I do like 13 weeks is that those who are truly committed will enjoy this time of learning - especially those who are new Christians.

And how does that square to how members were added to local churches in the Book of Acts daily? I do not see one shred of evidence they went to a 13 week communicants class before being "added daily." There is plenty of time to learn after conversion.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I do think your ministry as described in your posts is where daily life meets a face to face encounter with Jesus Christ. One gets the sense that ministries like yours take situations that we find in people's lives, especially on the lower economic and social rung of the ladder, lead people with the guidance of the Holy Spirit to an abiding faith in Christ that make a permanent difference in the lives of those who have never experienced the love of God. This is where the rubber meets the road, and produces real change. Jesus is the answer to changed lives, families, and in fact, a changed nation.

EWF, you are truly blessed, as my perception is that you are light years ahead of the rich and famous established churches in making a change in a lost and dying world. My prayer is for continued success in your ministry and being used by the Lord to bring hope to those who are desperately seeking an answer to life's downside.

Thanks for keepong it real brother.:thumbs:

 

[Oldtimer]

And how does that square to how members were added to local churches in the Book of Acts daily? I do not see one shred of evidence they went to a 13 week communicants class before being "added daily." There is plenty of time to learn after conversion.

AMEN, Brother.

A God called pastor, should have a God given ability to discern, at least to the needed degree, truth that lies behind a profession of faith. Whether one walks the isle during an alter call or talks privately with him at some other time.

He should have the ability to invite a person who walked the isle to immediately come before the congregation for membership. He should have the ability to delay that invitation based on his discernment.

On this point, the pastor is truly the shepherd of the flock. IMO, if a congregation can't put their trust in his discernment of what his ears have heard, there is something wrong.

There is plenty of time to learn after conversion. The rest of the person's life, in fact. At least I know that's true in my case. Between this morning and the time I'm called home, I'll never learn all that's still left to be learned while still here on earth.

It's also the responsiblity of the assembly of believers to teach by actual instruction and the way they live their lives what a new convert needs to understand, as he or she begins to walk the narrow path of faith in our Saviour.