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Are Physical Jews Extinct?
- Thread starter robycop3
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Yes.
Usually at puberty. Also in some regions have a "female genital mutilation" procedure which involves cutting & stitching up, leaving the victim in serious danger in childbirth.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus abolished circumcision = it no longer makes one a covenant member. But God returned all to gentile status.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If Jesus abolished circumcision, it is a useless ritual that means nothing in God's sight.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Two key verses that help define the Jews are:
“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:14) This removes uncircumcised blood relatives from being members of Israel. (Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross). = no more physical Jews in the biblical sense.
“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.” (Romans 11:23) This is the constraint all of Romans 11 must pass through. And it proves God removed the unbelievers from Israel and that Jesus IS Israel.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Who are today's Jews? From my notes:
Following are a couple of brief quotes from the Jewish Encyclopedia, The Talmud (Jewish oral traditions in written form), and one from a leading Rabbi today. They claim Pharisaism as the continuing Jewish religion.
According to the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia, the Pharisees are today’s Jews.
“With the destruction of the Temple (70 A.D.) the Sadducees disappeared altogether, leaving the regulation of all Jewish affairs in the hands of the Pharisees. Henceforth, Jewish life was regulated by the Pharisees; the whole history of Judaism was reconstructed from the Pharisaic point of view, and a new aspect was given to the Sanhedrin of the past. A new chain of tradition supplanted the older priestly tradition (Abot 1:1). Pharisaism shaped the character of Judaism and the life and thought of the Jew for all the future.” The 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia Edited by Isadore Singer
From the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia (1943):
“The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees. Their leading ideas and methods found expression in a literature of enormous extent, of which a very great deal is still in existence. The Talmud is the largest and most important single piece of that literature … and the study of it is essential for any real understanding of Pharisaism.”
From the Talmud
Thus began the Talmud, mainly oral at first. Teacher succeeded teacher in synagogue and school. Their sayings and rulings based on the Book were treasured. The Sadducees, representing the extreme latitudinarians in life, opposed the continuous interpretation and reinterpretation of the Law to meet changing circumstances. They failed and disappeared. The Pharisees who provided the chief teachers of the Law succeeded and remained, and the Talmud is not the least of their achievements. BABA METZIAH – 91a-119a 93 INTRODUCTORY ESSAY (Soncino Babylonian Talmud) by THE EDITOR RABBI DR I . EPSTEIN B.A., Ph.D., D. Lit.
Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz (popular today and editor of his own version of the Talmud); commentary on BT Sanhedrin 59a
Access to the Talmud is not a crime for those who refrain from criticizing the religion of Judaism (“vexing Jews”). Jesus Christ quoted the forerunner of the Talmud, the Mishnah as it was repeated in its oral form. As a critic of those Pharisaic doctrines he had no right to study them, according to the rabbis, and He paid for His study and critical evaluation with His life. The same fate awaits all skeptical researchers and scholars who dare to peer into the pages of the Talmud. From Michael Hoffman. Judaism Discovered.
Today's Jews exist solely because of their hatred and rejection of Christ. The Jews who accepted Jesus remained Israel into whom God grafts us as gentiles by faith. And "Jews" he reattaches to Israel (Christ) by faith.
Following are a couple of brief quotes from the Jewish Encyclopedia, The Talmud (Jewish oral traditions in written form), and one from a leading Rabbi today. They claim Pharisaism as the continuing Jewish religion.
According to the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia, the Pharisees are today’s Jews.
“With the destruction of the Temple (70 A.D.) the Sadducees disappeared altogether, leaving the regulation of all Jewish affairs in the hands of the Pharisees. Henceforth, Jewish life was regulated by the Pharisees; the whole history of Judaism was reconstructed from the Pharisaic point of view, and a new aspect was given to the Sanhedrin of the past. A new chain of tradition supplanted the older priestly tradition (Abot 1:1). Pharisaism shaped the character of Judaism and the life and thought of the Jew for all the future.” The 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia Edited by Isadore Singer
From the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia (1943):
“The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees. Their leading ideas and methods found expression in a literature of enormous extent, of which a very great deal is still in existence. The Talmud is the largest and most important single piece of that literature … and the study of it is essential for any real understanding of Pharisaism.”
From the Talmud
Thus began the Talmud, mainly oral at first. Teacher succeeded teacher in synagogue and school. Their sayings and rulings based on the Book were treasured. The Sadducees, representing the extreme latitudinarians in life, opposed the continuous interpretation and reinterpretation of the Law to meet changing circumstances. They failed and disappeared. The Pharisees who provided the chief teachers of the Law succeeded and remained, and the Talmud is not the least of their achievements. BABA METZIAH – 91a-119a 93 INTRODUCTORY ESSAY (Soncino Babylonian Talmud) by THE EDITOR RABBI DR I . EPSTEIN B.A., Ph.D., D. Lit.
Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz (popular today and editor of his own version of the Talmud); commentary on BT Sanhedrin 59a
Access to the Talmud is not a crime for those who refrain from criticizing the religion of Judaism (“vexing Jews”). Jesus Christ quoted the forerunner of the Talmud, the Mishnah as it was repeated in its oral form. As a critic of those Pharisaic doctrines he had no right to study them, according to the rabbis, and He paid for His study and critical evaluation with His life. The same fate awaits all skeptical researchers and scholars who dare to peer into the pages of the Talmud. From Michael Hoffman. Judaism Discovered.
Today's Jews exist solely because of their hatred and rejection of Christ. The Jews who accepted Jesus remained Israel into whom God grafts us as gentiles by faith. And "Jews" he reattaches to Israel (Christ) by faith.
Underscore "From my notes" Again - opinion.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
This might be opinion but it is how the Jews see themselves according to their own valued resources.
Not Messianic Jews.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Messianic Jew = Messianic Methodist or Messianic Baptist etc...
Even if true, so what.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Just sayin'.....
My posts #47 & #55 & #56 are concerned with the Scriptures that refute the OP.
It would be helpful if proper consideration to Scripture were brought to bear on the subject.
Rather than write another "invisible ink" post I will simple ask -
What was John's attitude to those who claimed to be Abraham's seed? (Mat. 3)
and
What was Jesus' attitude to those who claimed to be Abraham's seed? (John 8)
Should we have the same attitude?
It would be helpful if proper consideration to Scripture were brought to bear on the subject.
Rather than write another "invisible ink" post I will simple ask -
What was John's attitude to those who claimed to be Abraham's seed? (Mat. 3)
and
What was Jesus' attitude to those who claimed to be Abraham's seed? (John 8)
Should we have the same attitude?
John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Yes, even Abraham's seed has corrupted individuals yet Jesus still acknowledged that they were Abraham's seed.
Read on - no he did not accept their claim.
39 ‘Abraham is our father,’ they answered.
‘If you were Abraham’s children,’ said Jesus, ‘then you would do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.’
......
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.....
‘If you were Abraham’s children,’ said Jesus, ‘then you would do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.’
......
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires.....
Yes I see that. They were Abraham's physical "seed-sperma" but they did not go on to become his "children-teknon".
Nonetheless they were the physical descendants (Jews) of Abraham.
John was equally direct -
Mat. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptising, he said to them: ‘You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, “We have Abraham as our father.” I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The axe has been laid to the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
Seems as if being genuine physical descendants of Abraham, complete with family tree, was worse than worthless for those who trusted in their pedigree rather than in humble faith.
Peter was more positive in his approach to those who trusted in Moses -
Acts 3:22 For Moses said, “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.”
- those trusting in circumcision rather than Christ will be completely cut off - separated from the redeemed people of God. Peter continues, to show that the Abrahamic covenant is fulfilled in & by Christ -
24 ‘Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, “Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.” 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.’
The OP thesis is completely at variance with Scripture.
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