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Are Physical Jews Extinct?

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David Kent

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There is a false teaching that there atr ten lost tribes.

That is British Israelite teaching.

When the kingdom was divided, faithful members of the ten tribes stayed in Jerusalem. When Cyrus became king he was over all the nations where Jews and Israelites were exiled. The offer was for all the people of the LORD God to return.

  • 1 ¶ Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
  • 2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.
  • 3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.

Even if Roby's British Israelism is correct there could only 9 lost tribes as Anna was of the tribe of Asher.
  • Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
 

FollowTheWay

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Christ abolished the Old Covenant.
Absolutely and that was emphasized by Paul in the book of Romans. He emphasized that we are no longer under the law (first covenant) but under Christ (second covenant of grace). The first covenant was meant to be temporary while the second covenant is eternal.
 

HankD

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The OP thesis is completely at variance with Scripture.
Wrong "cut off" - kareth - can mean death or banishment or loss of God's favor but nowhere does it say or mean the individual ceases to be a Jew a descendant of Abraham.
 

robycop3

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If circumcision no longer makes one a physical member of Israel, unbelievers are not Israel. Judaism = religion = Jews practice it = not biblical Jews or biblical Judaism.

As I said before, I was circimcised shortly after birth, but that didn't make me a Jew.

I don't see why it's so difficult for a Christian to BELIEVE GOD when He said He'd restore the WHOLE House of Israel.
 

robycop3

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Jesus was born under the Law. But when he abolished circumcision he took away the means of becoming a physical biblical Jew and physical member of Israel. Faith in Christ is the only means we have to become members of Israel.

There's no Scripture specifically saying Jesus abolished circumcision. And there's certainly no Scripture saying Israel or Judah would become extinct.

No, God didn't abandon the Jews for 1800 + years. He PUNISHED them. Had he ABANDONED them, they woulda gone extinct. No people in history has undergone such persecution for so long & still remained a people. Their punishment culminated in the nazi holocaust, and after that He began to lift it.

Even the godless Napoleon Bonaparte, when asked if he believed in miracles, answered without hesitation, "Yes, the Jews."

Remember, Paul said the Jews could be grafted onto Jesus' "tree" more-easily than a gentile could, as the Jew was the "natural" part of the "tree".

God will restore Israel for three reasons: first, He SAID He would. Second, His promise to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob. Third, He does not want any man to say "He made a people but couldn't preserve them".
 

Aaron

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There's no Scripture specifically saying Jesus abolished circumcision.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

All nations, even the Jews.

Baptizing, not circumcising.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
There's no Scripture specifically saying Jesus abolished circumcision. And there's certainly no Scripture saying Israel or Judah would become extinct.

No, God didn't abandon the Jews for 1800 + years. He PUNISHED them. Had he ABANDONED them, they woulda gone extinct. No people in history has undergone such persecution for so long & still remained a people. Their punishment culminated in the nazi holocaust, and after that He began to lift it.

Even the godless Napoleon Bonaparte, when asked if he believed in miracles, answered without hesitation, "Yes, the Jews."

Remember, Paul said the Jews could be grafted onto Jesus' "tree" more-easily than a gentile could, as the Jew was the "natural" part of the "tree".

God will restore Israel for three reasons: first, He SAID He would. Second, His promise to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob. Third, He does not want any man to say "He made a people but couldn't preserve them".
Think of it this way. God broke off the unbelievers from Israel in Romans 11.

“Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:” (Romans 11:20)

“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?” (Romans 11:23–24)
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
As I said before, I was circimcised shortly after birth, but that didn't make me a Jew.

I don't see why it's so difficult for a Christian to BELIEVE GOD when He said He'd restore the WHOLE House of Israel.
The point is, circumcision, as a Hebrew religious rite, made one a physical member of Abraham's seed. Not birth. Any not circumcised remained a gentile.

“And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:14)
 

FollowTheWay

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Actually, the whole discussion about who's a Jew and who's not is irrelevant to the real question. Jews will be saved in the same way everyone else is saved, through grace by faith in Jesus Christ our Lord. The Jews were God's chosen people. But He gave them this warning:
"But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people: And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?" I Kings 9:6-8.

That's what happened. The Jews abandoned God and therefore God abandoned the Jews. This is stated in the last book of the Old Testament.

[Mal 1:1, 11-14 KJV] 1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi. ...

[Mal 1:10-14 KJV] 10 Who [is there] even among you that would shut the doors [for nought]? neither do ye kindle [fire] on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.

11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the LORD [is] polluted; and the fruit thereof, [even] his meat, [is] contemptible.

13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness [is it]! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the LORD of hosts; and ye brought [that which was] torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the LORD.

14 But cursed [be] the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I [am] a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name [is] dreadful among the heathen.
 

Covenanter

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There's no Scripture specifically saying Jesus abolished circumcision. And there's certainly no Scripture saying Israel or Judah would become extinct.
"But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight;
1 Kings 9:6

Solomon was quoting Moses -
Deut. 28:62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the Lord your God. 63 Just as it pleased the Lord to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

Roman 9 comes before Romans 11 & shows that believing Jews are certainly counted in, with Gentiles also counted as "my people." The idea that God abandoned Israel aka the Jews for 2,000 years because they rejected their Messiah is foreign to Scripture. The idea that God's chosen people could be rejected for 60 generations is surely an insult to the character of a God of love.

No, God didn't abandon the Jews for 1800 + years. He PUNISHED them. Had he ABANDONED them, they woulda gone extinct. No people in history has undergone such persecution for so long & still remained a people. Their punishment culminated in the nazi holocaust, and after that He began to lift it.
Absolutely WRONG!
The generation that rejected Jesus was punished in AD 70. Paul said -
1 Thes. 2:you suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

That was the punishment of the Jews who rejected their Messiah, and rejected the Gospel offering them free & full forgiveness through Jesus' blood. The OC promises to Israel were fulfilled in & by the LORD Jesus Christ by his life, death, resurrection, ascension & the Gospel. Messianic Israel was born in a day at Pentecost & through the next 35 years many thousands of Jews were added to the holy nation. Zechariah indicates 1/3 of the nation. Revelation says 144,000.

Even the godless Napoleon Bonaparte, when asked if he believed in miracles, answered without hesitation, "Yes, the Jews."
The fact that some people call themselves "Jews" is of no significance.

Remember, Paul said the Jews could be grafted onto Jesus' "tree" more-easily than a gentile could, as the Jew was the "natural" part of the "tree".

God will restore Israel for three reasons: first, He SAID He would. Second, His promise to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob. Third, He does not want any man to say "He made a people but couldn't preserve them".

Relevant Scriptures include Ezekiel 36 & 37. These were addressed to the Jews in exile, who had the promise of return in 70 years. God fulfilled that promise, though the returning Jews were rather half hearted about it. The rebuilding of the temple prophecy, including animal sacrifices for sin was partly accomplished, but again half heartedly. A perfect fulfilment was needed, and that's where Jesus comes in.

Israel was restored as a holy nation according to Peter, but not a physical nation but a spiritual nation comprising believers of all nations, as promised to the Patriarchs.

Acts 3:24 ‘Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, “Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.” 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.’

1 Peter 2:4 As you come to him, the living Stone – rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him – 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
.....
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Jesus himself is the fulfilment of the OC promises & prophecies. The focus on the godless nation of Israel is a serious error.
 

JonShaff

Fellow Servant
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1 TIm...
3As I urged you on my departure to Macedonia, you should stay on at Ephesus to instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines 4or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies,which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God’s work, which is by faith. 5The goal of our instruction is the love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and a sincere faith.…

how does this fit into the equation?
 

Yeshua1

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Absolutely and that was emphasized by Paul in the book of Romans. He emphasized that we are no longer under the law (first covenant) but under Christ (second covenant of grace). The first covenant was meant to be temporary while the second covenant is eternal.
Does not though that the Jews ceased as a people before God!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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Actually, the whole discussion about who's a Jew and who's not is irrelevant to the real question. Jews will be saved in the same way everyone else is saved, through grace by faith in Jesus Christ our Lord. The Jews were God's chosen people. But He gave them this warning:
"But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people: And at this house, which is high, every one that passeth by it shall be astonished, and shall hiss; and they shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and to this house?" I Kings 9:6-8.

That's what happened. The Jews abandoned God and therefore God abandoned the Jews. This is stated in the last book of the Old Testament.

[Mal 1:1, 11-14 KJV] 1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi. ...

[Mal 1:10-14 KJV] 10 Who [is there] even among you that would shut the doors [for nought]? neither do ye kindle [fire] on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.

11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

12 But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the LORD [is] polluted; and the fruit thereof, [even] his meat, [is] contemptible.

13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness [is it]! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the LORD of hosts; and ye brought [that which was] torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the LORD.

14 But cursed [be] the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I [am] a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name [is] dreadful among the heathen.
They are still jews by birth, as some here seem to say that they are now gentiles instead!
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Does not though that the Jews ceased as a people before God!
God is true to his word. Circumcision, not blood, made one a physical seed of Abraham.
“He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:13–14)
 

Yeshua1

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God is true to his word. Circumcision, not blood, made one a physical seed of Abraham.
“He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:13–14)
Made the person part of the Covenant, but they were born jewish!
 

Yeshua1

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They are gentiles who practice Jewish customs. God is saving some through faith in Christ during the times of the gentiles.
Paul was a jew who was saved by Yeshua, and that is the same way for ever jew since Jesus arrived!
 
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