Are there any ex-catholics on this forum?

[Walter]

If you're trying to convince me to go back to the RCC, you're doing a lousy job of it. But then again, that was one of the reasons I left the RCC to begin with...

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I am only asking questions that you won't answer. I have answered each of yours.

 

[Walter]

See Jeremiah 17:2 "And the horns of their altars, 2 when their children remember their altars and their asherahs, beside the green trees, on the high hills," From the New American Bible (the official Catholic bible)

I also notice that not a single RC has tried to defend the RCC stance on a celibate clergy that contradicts what is in the bible. 1 Timothy 3:2 "Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach," Now...about that celibate clergy....

It does not 'contradict the bible'. The verse you quote only says that that the candidate be 'married once', not twice or even married to multiple women. If a Catholic is called to the priesthood and desires marriage he can do so in the Eastern Rite of the Church. It is a discipline only in the Latin Rite. No one is forbidden to marry.

 

[saved41199]

It does not 'contradict the bible'. The verse you quote only says that that the candidate be 'married once', not twice or even married to multiple women. If a Catholic is called to the priesthood and desires marriage he can do so in the Eastern Rite of the Church. It is a discipline only in the Latin Rite. No one is forbidden to marry.

Uh huh...sure...whatever...the history of priestly celibacy is rather interesting and extremely sordid.

 

[Walter]

Uh huh...sure...whatever...the history of priestly celibacy is rather interesting and extremely sordid.

So are the married Baptist pastors and youth ministers on this site.
StopBaptistPredators.org


Be sure to click on the: 'Hush it up' link

BTW, in my Baptist church I grew up in the pastor was diddling some of the kids in our church and when caught the church covered it up.

I know, 'whatever'!

 

[Walter]

For those of you here that have left the Catholic Church for fundamentalism because of mistaken ideas of what the Catholic Church actually teaches, the Catechism of the Catholic Church has biblical answers to the majority of objections here. However, one book I read by former evangelical, David Currie got my attention in a big way. I suggest you might read them to get the real position of The Catholic Faith. Not trying to get y'all to 'revert' back, but think you need to know the actual position of the Church.

'Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic' by David Currie:

David Currie was raised in a devout Christian family whose father was a fundamentalist preacher and both parents teachers at Moody Bible Institute. Currie's whole upbringing was immersed in the life of fundamentalist Protestantism - theology professors, seminary presidents and founders of evangelical mission agencies were frequent guests at his family dinner table. Currie received a degree from Trinity International University and studied in the Masters of Divinity program. This book was written as an explanation to his fundamentalist and evangelical friends and family about why he became a Roman Catholic. Currie presents a very lucid, systematic and intelligible account of the reasons for his conversion to the ancient Church that Christ founded. He gives a detailed discussion of the important theological and doctrinal beliefs Catholic and evangelicals hold in common, as well as the key doctrines that separate us, particularly the Eucharist, the Pope, and Mary.

 

[Adonia]

It means that they got it all wrong...just because "everybody" did something doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

For the Catholic Church to be completely wrong in everything as you now insist, you would have to believe that God would allow a lie to exist for so long, thereby condemning millions of faithful souls to damnation by following an orthodox teaching of the Scriptures. I don't think so!

 

[saved41199]

Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic' by David Currie

It's on my bookshelf.

For the Catholic Church to be completely wrong in everything as you now insist, you would have to believe that God would allow a lie to exist for so long, thereby condemning millions of faithful souls to damnation by following an orthodox teaching of the Scriptures. I don't think so!

Isn't there something in scripture about people being deceived? Just because so many people believe something doesn't make it right.

So are the married Baptist pastors and youth ministers on this site.

YOU are the one who jumped to a conclusion there...I was talking about the HISTORY of celibacy...and when it comes to child molesters...well...seems to me the RC has a good number, including one that was at the parish I used to belong to. So, that's not a "proof" of anything, that's more of a "I know you are but what am I" deal...lacking in any substance.

Regarding the Catechism of the Catholic Church...that's on my shelf too. Why can't you accept that there are those who have made a study of religion and theology and found the RCC lacking? My path out of the RCC was long, terrifying and accompanied by much study. See, I had been effectively brainwashed to believe that "outside the church there is no salvation"...that by leaving I was dooming my soul to hell. However, after much study, I found that particular statement to be utterly untrue...that salvation was not to be found by following the rules and regulations of the RCC...it was to be found solely by belief in Jesus Christ and his atonement for my sins on the cross. It's not saying rosaries, it's not going to Mass, it's not the plenary indulgences, it's not having Masses said for the repose of my soul, it's not having people pray for me after my death to cut short my time in purgatory (which is not biblical at all)...

So...given that your responses seem angry and condescending, I will now leave this discussion because if you're attempting to sway me to return to the RCC, you've not succeeded. You've done nothing but further reinforce my decision, made 20 years ago, to leave.

 

[Adonia]

It's on my bookshelf.



Isn't there something in scripture about people being deceived? Just because so many people believe something doesn't make it right.


YOU are the one who jumped to a conclusion there...I was talking about the HISTORY of celibacy...and when it comes to child molesters...well...seems to me the RC has a good number, including one that was at the parish I used to belong to. So, that's not a "proof" of anything, that's more of a "I know you are but what am I" deal...lacking in any substance.

I appreciate the response and just want to say that if I was intemperate in any manner towards you earlier with anything I posted, I apologize.

 

[John Yurich]

I am both Catholic and Baptist. I was Baptized as a baby in the Catholic Church and I attend the local Catholic parish on Saturday Vigil Mass. I also attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings. I am a Baptist because I was Baptized via immersion at that Baptist Church as a public profession of faith that I gave my life to Christ.

 

[saved41199]

I appreciate the response and just want to say that if I was intemperate in any manner towards you earlier with anything I posted, I apologize.

I accept your apology, however, your brusque manner and unwillingness to truly discuss anything has turned me off to discussing anything further with you. I take my leave of this discussion now. May you find the peace that passes all understanding in a real, vibrant relationship with our Lord, rather than following a bunch of rules.

 

[Walter]

It's on my bookshelf.



Isn't there something in scripture about people being deceived? Just because so many people believe something doesn't make it right.


YOU are the one who jumped to a conclusion there...I was talking about the HISTORY of celibacy...and when it comes to child molesters...well...seems to me the RC has a good number, including one that was at the parish I used to belong to. So, that's not a "proof" of anything, that's more of a "I know you are but what am I" deal...lacking in any substance.

Regarding the Catechism of the Catholic Church...that's on my shelf too. Why can't you accept that there are those who have made a study of religion and theology and found the RCC lacking? My path out of the RCC was long, terrifying and accompanied by much study. See, I had been effectively brainwashed to believe that "outside the church there is no salvation"...that by leaving I was dooming my soul to hell. However, after much study, I found that particular statement to be utterly untrue...that salvation was not to be found by following the rules and regulations of the RCC...it was to be found solely by belief in Jesus Christ and his atonement for my sins on the cross. It's not saying rosaries, it's not going to Mass, it's not the plenary indulgences, it's not having Masses said for the repose of my soul, it's not having people pray for me after my death to cut short my time in purgatory (which is not biblical at all)...

So...given that your responses seem angry and condescending, I will now leave this discussion because if you're attempting to sway me to return to the RCC, you've not succeeded. You've done nothing but further reinforce my decision, made 20 years ago, to leave.

I'm sorry you think my responses were angry and condescending. Actually, after reading them I can see how you might believe that. As I stated before, I am not here to 'persuade you to come back.' I simply want to express the reasons I am no longer a Baptist. That came from much study as well.

 

[Adonia]

I accept your apology, however, your brusque manner and unwillingness to truly discuss anything has turned me off to discussing anything further with you. I take my leave of this discussion now. May you find the peace that passes all understanding in a real, vibrant relationship with our Lord, rather than following a bunch of rules.

I rescind my apology. Have a nice day!

 

[MennoSota]

So then you refuse to see and accept the historical truth. From the early days of the Christian Church there was but one, the One Universal (Catholic) Christian Church. This is the Church whose Bishop's held the Councils and Synods to decide doctrines and combat heresies. This is the Church whose worship service, the Mass, is basically the same today as it was back then.

This is the Church started by Jesus Christ to spread the faith and to shepherd the faithful, all the way to the 11th century and the great schism between East and West. And even our Eastern brothers dared not to jettison the orthodox teachings of Christianity. No, you are mistaken, totally mistaken about the whole thing. You can have your own opinion, but the facts are the facts!

You are making a claim you cannot prove. For 300 years the church was persecuted in the Roman empire. None of the churches meeting in secret were ever under the Roman church authority.
Empty words from you with no biblical support equals an illegitimate claim on your part.

 

[MennoSota]

No, you are the one who is following the false teachings on mere men, not me. My church has been there from the very beginning. You were poorly taught about the Christian faith, as many were, but there is no other place where I would rather worship God than in His Holy Universal (Catholic) Church. Like I have said before, your type of church has replaced the altar with the pulpit which does not follow Jesus's command to do the memoriam of His death and resurrection.

Adonia, the leaders at Rome are mere men. They are flawed...like the doctrines they conjured from thin air rather than from the scriptures.

 

[Adonia]

You are making a claim you cannot prove. For 300 years the church was persecuted in the Roman empire. None of the churches meeting in secret were ever under the Roman church authority.
Empty words from you with no biblical support equals an illegitimate claim on your part.

The Roman Empire and the Church led by the Bishop of Rome are two separate things. There was but one! (see the writings of the ECF's)

 

[Adonia]

Adonia, the leaders at Rome are mere men. They are flawed...like the doctrines they conjured from thin air rather than from the scriptures.

Yes, they were flawed men but acting with the authority of God in conjunction with the Holy Spirit.

 

[MennoSota]

The Roman Empire and the Church led by the Bishop of Rome are two separate things. There was but one! (see the writings of the ECF's)

You are making a claim you cannot support. Instead you merely state Roman church dogma. Thus, you make our point for us, which is that you have no biblical support.

 

[MennoSota]

Yes, they were flawed men but acting with the authority of God in conjunction with the Holy Spirit.

No, they were acting under their own authority with political power as their motivation.
Once again, you have no biblical support.

 

[Bro. James]

Because eating cow and chicken are the common meats that we tend to eat everyday and substituting fish on Fridays was a discipline of the church, done as a minor sacrifice on our part. Don't you ever fast or have any other disciplines in your life that you offer up in honor of what Jesus did for us?

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Repeating the question: has anyone ever tried to force their religion on you?

As I recall, eating meat other than fish meat on Friday was a mortal sin. Is that still true? Missing Mass on Sunday was a mortal sin too.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[saved41199]

As I recall, eating meat other than fish meat on Friday was a mortal sin. Is that still true? Missing Mass on Sunday was a mortal sin too.

By the time I came along, the no meat on Friday thing was just during Lent...and it was no big sacrifice, most parishes had a Fish Fry on Fridays..fish and chips and beer...couched as some sort of fundraiser. Missing Mass was a big deal though. But, as a teenager, I used to go to the Saturday night 6pm vigil Mass so I had my Saturday night free for partying and my Sunday morning for recovering. 6pm Mass...out by 7pm, partying by 7:05. We used to hit Confession too on Saturday before Mass so we were all paid up before we did it all again. I am so glad to be free of all that...Thank you Lord for showing me the way!