Are there any ex-catholics on this forum?

[Adonia]

Ya know, you sure say a lot but don't back it up very well...I might be a bit more impressed if you could provide references. And, as I said, i was born, raised and educated in the RC tradition. I left the RCC in 1997...after realizing many things that I had previously believed were false.I know many who left the RCC once they read the bible for themselves. So...start providing references to go along with your assertions and I MIGHT take you seriously. Otherwise, I will pray that the Holy Spirit opens your eyes to the false religion you follow where you are taught that you are never, ever good enough for the Lord...that you have to work your way to heaven through man-made rituals, seeking prayer for your departed soul to exit purgatory (which is also not biblical, as the Word says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord), and realize that salvation is easier than what you have been taught...works-based salvation is not biblical.

No, you are the one who is following the false teachings on mere men, not me. My church has been there from the very beginning. You were poorly taught about the Christian faith, as many were, but there is no other place where I would rather worship God than in His Holy Universal (Catholic) Church. Like I have said before, your type of church has replaced the altar with the pulpit which does not follow Jesus's command to do the memoriam of His death and resurrection.

 

[saved41199]

As for the Mass, look at your New Testament, from gathering on Sunday to worship, to receiving the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, to ordinations of clergy (the laying on of hands), to the power to forgive sins (confession) and on and on - all of them are there. You need to believe the correct biblical interpretation, not what you are believing now

Ok...let's see...Sunday Mass...there's the first reading from the OT, the Psalm response, the second reading, usually from the Epistles then there's the gospel...then the priest talks for 5-10 minutes about something...then there's the declaration of faith, Holy, Holy, part 1 of the Eucharistic prayer (one of 4), the Kyrie, the rest of the Eucharistic prayer, Angus Dei, Pater Noster, kiss of peace, receive communion, sit and "pray", another quickie prayer and dismissal. So...where is that in the bible? Where is the order of the Mass in the bible? Where is the idea that Jesus is "truly present" in a little piece of bread? (yeah, yeah, John 6 but it doesn't make any sense when taken in context), Where is the idea of confessing to a priest? Doesn't the bible say to confess to ONE ANOTHER not just some guy who knows jack about jack when it comes to the real world?

You were poorly taught about the Christian faith, as many were, but there is no other place where I would rather worship God than in His Holy Universal (Catholic) Church

Yeah...no. I was taught by nuns and priests...and once I opened my eyes and read THE BIBLE instead of all the stupid catechism books, I realized I had been duped.

Now...you are not doing a great job of representing the RCC to me or anyone else here since you seem to feel the need to be abrasive, condescending and very ignorant about the other side of the discussion. Have a great day...I am done with you and will pray that the Lord opens your eyes to the false religion you have been sucked into.

 

[Adonia]

Ok...let's see...Sunday Mass...there's the first reading from the OT, the Psalm response, the second reading, usually from the Epistles then there's the gospel...then the priest talks for 5-10 minutes about something...then there's the declaration of faith, Holy, Holy, part 1 of the Eucharistic prayer (one of 4), the Kyrie, the rest of the Eucharistic prayer, Angus Dei, Pater Noster, kiss of peace, receive communion, sit and "pray", another quickie prayer and dismissal. So...where is that in the bible? Where is the order of the Mass in the bible? Where is the idea that Jesus is "truly present" in a little piece of bread? (yeah, yeah, John 6 but it doesn't make any sense when taken in context), Where is the idea of confessing to a priest? Doesn't the bible say to confess to ONE ANOTHER not just some guy who knows jack about jack when it comes to the real world?

The Mass is the Bible in action, if you cannot see that then there is nothing I can do or say. What's the matter, doesn't your Bible have the Our Father prayer in it? Don't you like to hear a reading from the OT, the Psalms, an Epistle AND a gospel? They all come directly from the Bible and that cannot be denied! And do I really have to bring up the passage where Jesus gave the Apostles the power to forgive or retain sins? The Catholic Church stands on solid scriptural grounds!

And yes, we do have a sermon, though it is not the centerpiece of worship as your sect has wrongly put forth, but the re-enactment of the Last Supper is - just like Jesus commands us to accentuate in worship.

Everything you have just raised up is in the Bible and your mind has been programmed to believe that this is not so. You are simply wrong. As for the Holy Eucharist, St. Paul says the following in 1 Corinthians 26-29.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Notice the 2 phrases I have pointed out: "Shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord" and "not discerning the Lord's body". One cannot come up with any explanation of this other than St. Paul means that the Eucharist IS the body and blood of the Lord, truly present. This is a far more solid explanation of the Eucharist that what you cited and orthodox teaching derives from this.

So in ending we can see that despite your protestations, the Mass does indeed come from the Bible, the very book that you profess to love and believe. We have it all at the holy Mass and you have rejected it. Sad, so very sad.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Praise God that any of us are saved despite our flawed churches with their flawed pet theologies, full of flawed humans whether they be Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, Presbyterian, Emerging, Pentecostal, 7th day adventist, Non-denominational, etc.

I think there is a lot of rich tradition, history and even theology found in the Roman Catholic Church, despite its problems, that Baptists and protestants can learn from. I would encourage your son on his journey of faith to remember to look beyond the problems of flawed Baptist and Catholic people, theology and churches to the person we are all trying to emulate, Jesus Christ.

 

[Bro. James]

Has anyone ever tried to force their religion on you? Read up on the history of the inquisitions. The exploits of the Jesuits is another good read--in the context of The Holy(?) Roman Empire.

Minor point: True Baptists are not part of the so-called Protest Reformation of the Catholic Church. They were hated and persecuted by Luther etal. Baptists and others have been champions of religious freedom and freedom of conscience. Rome and the daughters of Rome cannot make this claim.

God still has a remnant--as promised--He has never left Her nor forsaken Her.

I too, was brainwashed by the priests and nuns under the auspices of Pius(?) XII; yep, I am a pre-Vatican II apostate, from the fish on Friday crowd. Has anyone ever figured out how the meat of the fish is different than that of a cow or a chicken? What about fried green grasshoppers? Only the always right, most reverend doctors understand that one?

Glory be to God, He brought me out of bondage unto His glorious Light.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Where in the bible is it written that Mary is the "co-mediatrix"? Where in the bible is her assumption into heaven? Find me those 2 and I'll go to confession and Mass.

Mary is leading the way.. I would suggest replacing the HS in Catholic way of things.

 

[Adonia]

Has anyone ever tried to force their religion on you? Read up on the history of the inquisitions. The exploits of the Jesuits is another good read--in the context of The Holy(?) Roman Empire.

Minor point: True Baptists are not part of the so-called Protest Reformation of the Catholic Church. They were hated and persecuted by Luther etal. Baptists and others have been champions of religious freedom and freedom of conscience. Rome and the daughters of Rome cannot make this claim.

God still has a remnant--as promised--He has never left Her nor forsaken Her.

I too, was brainwashed by the priests and nuns under the auspices of Pius(?) XII; yep, I am a pre-Vatican II apostate, from the fish on Friday crowd. Has anyone ever figured out how the meat of the fish is different than that of a cow or a chicken? What about fried green grasshoppers? Only the always right, most reverend doctors understand that one?

Glory be to God, He brought me out of bondage unto His glorious Light.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

Because eating cow and chicken are the common meats that we tend to eat everyday and substituting fish on Fridays was a discipline of the church, done as a minor sacrifice on our part. Don't you ever fast or have any other disciplines in your life that you offer up in honor of what Jesus did for us?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Because eating cow and chicken are the common meats that we tend to eat everyday and substituting fish on Fridays was a discipline of the church, done as a minor sacrifice on our part. Don't you ever fast or have any other disciplines in your life that you offer up in honor of what Jesus did for us?

Only if Saint Patrick's day falls on a Lenten Friday, chances are your Bishop will give you a dispensation to eat meat. LOL

 

[John Yurich]

Evewn though the RCC worships in vain?

The RCC worships Jesus as God. If the Mass is not entirely false as there are scriptural parts of the Mass then the RCC does not worship in vain.

 

[John Yurich]

No, but that the RCC itself is apostate, so the saved person should flee and find a bible teaching church!

That is not necessary for a Catholic who becomes Born Again by giving their life to Christ to leave the Catholic Church entirely. They can do what I do and that is attend the local Catholic parish on Saturday Vigil Mass and then attend a Baptist or some other Evangelical Protestant Church on Sunday mornings. I am both Catholic and Baptist. I am a Baptist as the result of having been Baptized via immersion(as a public profession of faith that I gave my life to Christ) on 21 May at that Baptist Church I attend on Sunday mornings.

 

[Walter]

Ok...let's see...Sunday Mass...there's the first reading from the OT, the Psalm response, the second reading, usually from the Epistles then there's the gospel...then the priest talks for 5-10 minutes about something...then there's the declaration of faith, Holy, Holy, part 1 of the Eucharistic prayer (one of 4), the Kyrie, the rest of the Eucharistic prayer, Angus Dei, Pater Noster, kiss of peace, receive communion, sit and "pray", another quickie prayer and dismissal. So...where is that in the bible? Where is the order of the Mass in the bible? Where is the idea that Jesus is "truly present" in a little piece of bread? (yeah, yeah, John 6 but it doesn't make any sense when taken in context), Where is the idea of confessing to a priest? Doesn't the bible say to confess to ONE ANOTHER not just some guy who knows jack about jack when it comes to the real world?



Yeah...no. I was taught by nuns and priests...and once I opened my eyes and read THE BIBLE instead of all the stupid catechism books, I realized I had been duped.

Now...you are not doing a great job of representing the RCC to me or anyone else here since you seem to feel the need to be abrasive, condescending and very ignorant about the other side of the discussion. Have a great day...I am done with you and will pray that the Lord opens your eyes to the false religion you have been sucked into.

I was raised Baptist and once I opened my eyes realized that the Baptist interpretation of scripture was NOT what the Early Church taught and practiced I became Catholic. So there you go!

Does it mean nothing to you that all of the earliest churches excavated had altars?

The Ancient Mass in the"House Churches"was not as Informal as Many Think - Community in Mission

 

[saved41199]

Does it mean nothing to you that all of the earliest churches excavated had altars?

It means that they got it all wrong...just because "everybody" did something doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

 

[John Yurich]

It means that they got it all wrong...just because "everybody" did something doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

Since when is having an altar in church for celebrating the Lord's Supper upon wrong? The only reason the earliest churches had an altar was for celebrating the Lord's Supper upon.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If so, can you share how/why you left Catholicism? My oldest son is considering Catholicism so I'm investigating the claims of the RCC. I've read several "testimonies" of folks who have left protestant churches for the RCC and am looking for stories of folks who left the RCC for protestant churches.

TIA

Ianman......what I am going to show you isn't going to address your question, not directly. But perhaps it will give you some understanding as to a contemplative stance that is in the Catholic Theology. It is my hope that if you do view this (its 1 hour long, so do it when you can dedicate the time...and I would further suggest you view it alone & away from any distractions) that you will gain some understanding of some of the substance that is Catholicism. Later we can discuss what I find wrong with Catholicism, but lets look at a spiritual side that seldom gets presented.

 

[Walter]

The RCC is NOT the true universal church, as the true church of Christ here on earth is made up of all the redeemed out from every assembly on Earth!

Any historical evidence of ANYONE doing it your way or believing the way you do in those early centuries of the Church? Any at all??

 

[saved41199]

Since when is having an altar in church for celebrating the Lord's Supper upon wrong? The only reason the earliest churches had an altar was for celebrating the Lord's Supper upon.

See Jeremiah 17:2 "And the horns of their altars, 2 when their children remember their altars and their asherahs, beside the green trees, on the high hills," From the New American Bible (the official Catholic bible)

I also notice that not a single RC has tried to defend the RCC stance on a celibate clergy that contradicts what is in the bible. 1 Timothy 3:2 "Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach," Now...about that celibate clergy....

 

[Walter]

The fact is all the attempts for Baptists to 'hitch their wagon' to ancient heretical groups

It means that they got it all wrong...just because "everybody" did something doesn't mean it was the right thing to do.

Any historical evidence in those first centuries of the Church of anyone who believed the way you do? Any at all??

The Anabaptists denied that a person is saved by faith alone.

The Montanists taught that "God, not being able to save the world by Moses and the Prophets, took flesh of the Virgin Mary, and in Christ, His Son, preached and died for us. And because He could not accomplish the salvation of the world by this second method, the Holy Spirit descended upon Montanus, Prisca, and Maximilla, giving them the plenitude which St. Paul had not (1 Corinthians 13:9). [

The Novatians refused readmission to communion of baptized Christians who had denied their faith. [

"For proponents [of Baptist Successionism], writes Fr. Dwight Longenecker, "the fact that there is no historical proof for their theory simply shows how good the Catholic Church was at persecution and cover-up. However, why didn't the evil Catholics destroy all the Gnostic's works, etc.? Baptist Successionism can never be disproved because all that is required for their succession to be transmitted was a small group of faithful people somewhere at some time who kept the flame of the true faith alive. The authors of this "history" skim happily over the heretical beliefs of their supposed forefathers in the faith. It is sufficient that all these groups were opposed to, and persecuted by, the Catholics."

 

[Walter]

Oh, yeah. How about those Baptistic Waldenses?: Pay special attention to their 'Confession of Faith'.

Who Were the Waldenses?

 

[saved41199]

If you're trying to convince me to go back to the RCC, you're doing a lousy job of it. But then again, that was one of the reasons I left the RCC to begin with...

 

[Walter]

See Jeremiah 17:2 "And the horns of their altars, 2 when their children remember their altars and their asherahs, beside the green trees, on the high hills," From the New American Bible (the official Catholic bible)

(deleted) responding to wrong poster