Ariz. may require hospitals to check citizenship

[Ruiz]

I called you nothing, but you have repeatedly lied about the obligation of doctors to enforce the law.

Or maybe you just didn't understand. I think you did understand and your deception was intentional.

My "character" is usually questioned by those who tell lies and get called on it.

I don't mind at all. It's human nature to try to point the finger the other way. No want likes to get caught in a lie.

Of course, you could simply admit you were mistaken. But you haven't and I doubt you will.

It is not a lie, hospitals are required to ask that information. Thus, in essence, any caregiver could be required by the hospital. This is not a lie, this is the essence of this discussion. I am not mistaken. Hospitals are required, Doctors are often the extension of that requirement. If at anytime during the interview with the doctor it is revealed that this is an illegal immigrant, you will, by this law, require the doctor to report the person. They will be required to violate the 1974 Privacy Act.

I think Doctors and caregivers should be given similar rights as that of a lawyer. If, for instance, I confessed to a crime to my lawyer, he could not turn me in because of client confidentiality (nor could he be forced to turn me in). This was done by our system to protect the rights of the people even with state appointed attorneys. I think the exact same scenario exists in medicine. My doctor is my advocate. You, though, believe this law which requires that such information be given to the executive branch will essentially make Doctors the arm of the executive branch. This law makes any caregiver who comes into contact with the patient in a hospital responsible. If one person does not ask, it would be up to another.

Thus, you can continue to call me a liar, but I think this is what Republicans often resort to when they have not rational basis for a law that violates our Constitutional rights.

Call me a liar, but you know the point I was making and you are being hostile to only advance your unChristian political belief. Why not volunteer and give your time and money to actually help these people instead of sitting behind a computer with one desire, their deportation.

 

[targus]

I simply don't think that hospitals are the place to enforce border controls. The purpose of a hospital is to treat the sick, not act as immigration officers.

I wonder what the response would be if an American travelling abroad had his or her spouse's treatment delayed, even for a moment, while their nationality was checked?

Where do you get the idea that treatment is delayed?

Interesting that "treatment denied" which was the first claim in this thread - upon being shown to be untrue - now has morphed into "treatment delayed".

 

[targus]

How come no one has adressed my point that doctors and hospitals are already an arm of law enforcement because they are required to report any suspected case of child abuse and are also supposed to report treatment for gunshot wounds.

Why no complaint about that use of the doctor's time?

 

[mandym]

So you don't want more to come in? So you want to keep people out?

I want them to come in legally. Plain and simple. I want them to be known before they come in.

 

[matt wade]

How come no one has adressed my point that doctors and hospitals are already an arm of law enforcement because they are required to report any suspected case of child abuse and are also supposed to report treatment for gunshot wounds.

Why no complaint about that use of the doctor's time?

Maybe if Ruiz suffered from a gunshot wound, rather than being Hispanic, we might hear about that. :laugh:

 

[carpro]

It is not a lie, hospitals are required to ask that information. .

You said doctors had to ask for that information. That was a lie. Still is. You said it several times and still can't admit you were mistaken.

That simply means your deception was intentional. IOW you lied.

The reason is simple...to dramatize your point by making it more emotional.

It's still a lie.

 

[targus]

You said doctors had to ask for that information. That was a lie. Still is. You said it several times and still can't admit you were mistaken.

That simply means your deception was intentional. IOW you lied.

Come on carpro - haven't you ever been to a doctor's office?

The doctor always sits at the reception area and takes medical insurance and medical history information - it's not like they have a clerical staff or anything like that.

 

[mandym]

It is not a lie, hospitals are required to ask that information. Thus, in essence, any caregiver could be required by the hospital. This is not a lie, this is the essence of this discussion. I am not mistaken. Hospitals are required, Doctors are often the extension of that requirement. If at anytime during the interview with the doctor it is revealed that this is an illegal immigrant, you will, by this law, require the doctor to report the person. They will be required to violate the 1974 Privacy Act.

I think Doctors and caregivers should be given similar rights as that of a lawyer. If, for instance, I confessed to a crime to my lawyer, he could not turn me in because of client confidentiality (nor could he be forced to turn me in). This was done by our system to protect the rights of the people even with state appointed attorneys. I think the exact same scenario exists in medicine. My doctor is my advocate. You, though, believe this law which requires that such information be given to the executive branch will essentially make Doctors the arm of the executive branch. This law makes any caregiver who comes into contact with the patient in a hospital responsible. If one person does not ask, it would be up to another.

Thus, you can continue to call me a liar, but I think this is what Republicans often resort to when they have not rational basis for a law that violates our Constitutional rights.

Call me a liar, but you know the point I was making and you are being hostile to only advance your unChristian political belief. Why not volunteer and give your time and money to actually help these people instead of sitting behind a computer with one desire, their deportation.

It is you who work to misrepresent the whole thing. And it has been several posts. Overstatements are a complete misrepresentation of the situation. The hospital people in the admin are not the doctors. And since it is not actually the doctors then your point is moot and your misrepresentation is noted by all. If you are going to call everyone immoral and unChristian then you need to get your facts straight.

 

[carpro]

How come no one has adressed my point that doctors and hospitals are already an arm of law enforcement because they are required to report any suspected case of child abuse and are also supposed to report treatment for gunshot wounds.

Why no complaint about that use of the doctor's time?

You misframed the question.

Instead you should have posed that question using the example of an illegal alien with a gunshot wound or an illegal alien beating his children.

I'm sure it would be "immoral" to report those as well.:thumbs:

 

[carpro]

Come on carpro - haven't you ever been to a doctor's office?

The doctor always sits at the reception area and takes medical insurance and medical history information - it's not like they have a clerical staff or anything like that.

Of course!!! :tonofbricks:

My bad.

 

[Ruiz]

I want them to come in legally. Plain and simple. I want them to be known before they come in.

I want them to come in legal too. I do not want hospitals asking that question. That is not the place for them and the state should not require a private entity to ask the question.

 

[Ruiz]

Maybe if Ruiz suffered from a gunshot wound, rather than being Hispanic, we might hear about that. :laugh:

Matt,

I find that comment rather racist. Yes, I am hispanic but I do not have the position because I am hispanic, I have the position because it is consistent with what I believe a Doctor and a Hospital are... as well I do not believe government should require a private organization to do such work for them.

The role of law enforcement is not a hospital, it is the executive branch. I, as well as others, are protected by the 4th amendment. But most modern conservatives don't believe in that amendment anymore.

 

[Ruiz]

You said doctors had to ask for that information. That was a lie. Still is. You said it several times and still can't admit you were mistaken.

That simply means your deception was intentional. IOW you lied.

The reason is simple...to dramatize your point by making it more emotional.

It's still a lie.

Carpro,

You are rather antagonistic. I hope one day you learn what I Corinthians 13 means.

You can have the last word, I will not discuss with you anymore.

 

[Ruiz]

Come on carpro - haven't you ever been to a doctor's office?

The doctor always sits at the reception area and takes medical insurance and medical history information - it's not like they have a clerical staff or anything like that.

Actually, the best doctor I had was one who would care for every aspect and he did perform the tasks. Yet, it is up to the administrative staff, who are care givers too. The Doctors in a doctor's office are their boss. They have to ensure compliance of all laws. What a wasted law.

 

[Ruiz]

It is you who work to misrepresent the whole thing. And it has been several posts. Overstatements are a complete misrepresentation of the situation. The hospital people in the admin are not the doctors. And since it is not actually the doctors then your point is moot and your misrepresentation is noted by all. If you are going to call everyone immoral and unChristian then you need to get your facts straight.

Who run the hospitals? Administrators and Doctors. If I told a Doctor I was illegal, acccording to this law they would have to report it. They would have to inform me they have to report it. That is not the place of the doctor, that is not the place of the care giver.

 

[carpro]

Carpro,

You are rather antagonistic. I hope one day you learn what I Corinthians 13 means.

You can have the last word, I will not discuss with you anymore.

I don't like lies and liars.

I hope one day you look up what the Bible says about liars. The meaning is clear to anyone that can read.

 

[Ruiz]

I will defend the idea of being a liar. First, my devise of argumentation is not about lying. Simply speaking, the hospitals have to ask the question. This goes to any of the caregiver. Doctors are in charge of their personal staff which means they are responsible for this question being asked. If it is not asked, they will have to ask it.

Yet, to be a liar would be that I was making that a major part of my case and that Arizona is not requiring this to be done. No, doctors will be required by law to report illegals. The question must be asked and the supervisor in charge is a Doctor. They will and must be taken from their standard duty of caregiving to ensure this is done.

Whether they actually ask the question or not is moot and a straw man. The question is, will health care benefit any as a result.

Those who want to make this into me lying, well, they are only being political. Anyone can see this has nothing to do with health care. Rather than argue the point, they argue against me. This is juvenile. Others tend to imply that because I am hispanic that I don't understand. This, too, is racist.

The point is, Doctors should be focused on health care, not turning in illegals. States are violating the 4th Amendment of the Constitution by this requirement... and it should be done away with. Making my speech device into lying, is purely political and wrong.

When I went to the Doctors and was asked if I was a Hispanic, I found that question very offensive. Even the person asking the question believed it was racist. How much more would asking if I am illegal be offensive?

 

[mandym]

I want them to come in legal too. I do not want hospitals asking that question. That is not the place for them and the state should not require a private entity to ask the question.

Hospitals are already an arm of law enforcement because they are required to report any suspected case of child abuse and are also supposed to report treatment for gunshot wounds.

Why no complaint about that use of the doctor's time?

 

[matt wade]

Matt,

I find that comment rather racist. Yes, I am hispanic but I do not have the position because I am hispanic, I have the position because it is consistent with what I believe a Doctor and a Hospital are... as well I do not believe government should require a private organization to do such work for them.

The role of law enforcement is not a hospital, it is the executive branch. I, as well as others, are protected by the 4th amendment. But most modern conservatives don't believe in that amendment anymore.

How can my comment be racist? Paul3144 (another Hispanic) has explained to us that Hispanic is not a race! Therefore, it is impossible that my statement is racist.

Regardless, it doesn't matter that you find my statement racist. It was simply a statement of what I've observed in your posts. Just because someone addresses someone's race (we shall call it that for the purposes of this discussion), doesn't mean a post is automatically racist. The simple fact is that you don't seem to have a problem with hospitals reporting crimes such as shootings and child abuse. You do have a problem with hospitals reporting on illegal aliens. You position is inconsistent. The only reason I can see for the inconsistency is that you yourself are Hispanic and the vast majority of illegal aliens are Hispanic.

 

[carpro]

Who run the hospitals? Administrators and Doctors. If I told a Doctor I was illegal, acccording to this law they would have to report it. They would have to inform me they have to report it. That is not the place of the doctor, that is not the place of the care giver.

It's actually a pretty simple straight forward law, but you continue to ...misrepresent what it says.

Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:
Section 1. Title 36, chapter 4, article 1, Arizona Revised Statutes,
is amended by adding section 36-415, to read:
36-415. Hospital admissions; proof of citizenship, legal
residence or lawful presence; immunity​

A. BEFORE A HOSPITAL ADMITS A PERSON FOR NONEMERGENCY CARE, A HOSPITAL ADMISSIONS OFFICER MUST CONFIRM THAT THE PERSON IS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES, A LEGAL RESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OR LAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES. THE ADMISSIONS OFFICER MAY USE ANY METHOD PRESCRIBED IN
SECTION 1-501 TO VERIFY CITIZENSHIP OR LEGAL STATUS.​

B. IF THE ADMISSIONS OFFICER DETERMINES THAT THE PERSON DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF SUBSECTION A OF THIS SECTION, THE ADMISSIONS OFFICER MUST CONTACT THE LOCAL FEDERAL IMMIGRATION OFFICE.​

C. IF THE HOSPITAL PROVIDES EMERGENCY MEDICAL CARE PURSUANT TO FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS TO A PERSON WHO DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF SUBSECTION A OF THIS SECTION, ON SUCCESSFUL TREATMENT OF THE PATIENT THE ADMISSIONS OFFICER MUST CONTACT THE LOCAL FEDERAL IMMIGRATION OFFICE.​

D. A HOSPITAL THAT COMPLIES WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS SECTION IS NOT SUBJECT TO CIVIL LIABILITY.​

THERE ARE NO REQUIREMENTS FOR "DOCTORS", UNLESS THEY ALSO HAPPEN TO BE "THE ADMISSIONS OFFICER". THERE IS JUST ABOUT ZERO CHANCE OF THAT.​

The TRUTH shall make you free.:love2:​