Assurance of Salvation

[Yeshua1]

Is the Church required to exercise discipline to its members who blatantly violate Mathew 5:48 & pretend to be in fellowship with God?

You really need to come to gripes with your bad theology!

 

[Yeshua1]

We already know what God does with pharisee's hypocrite's like you. You claim you do not commit sin making God to be a Liar
1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
MB

So you also refuse to accept that the Lord Jesus commands his local church to exercise when proper and needed discipline among the members?

 

[Yeshua1]

Do confessions of sins make a person sinless that he no longer needs the grace given through Christ's atonement to have fellowship with God?

My sins have been fully forgiven by God the Father, but I still need to confess and repent and forsake those sins convicted by the Holy Spirit of!

 

[Yeshua1]

Your question does not make sense.
Three truths about forgivness of sins by the grace of God.
1. Full and the complete forgiveness, Hebrews 8:12.
2. The believer's sinless standing in Christ, not being under the Law, 2 Corinthians 5:21, 1 John 3:4, Romans 4:15, Romans 6:14, 1 John 3:6.
3. Practical forgivness and cleansing from sin, 1 John 1:9.

Would you agree with me also that those in spiritual leadership the OP spoke of, need to either get married to make it legit, or to stop living together?

 

[MB]

So you also refuse to accept that the Lord Jesus commands his local church to exercise when proper and needed discipline among the members?

You're wrong I do believe we should live Holy lives but, no one is perfect in this life. When men begin to believe they are perfect they no longer need Christ. Christ didn't come to save the saved. They begin looking down their noses at other Christians. Judging them and thanking God they aren't like other men. They consider them selves perfect and sinless. There is only one man who is perfect and that is Jesus Christ
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

You're wrong I do believe we should live Holy lives but, no one is perfect in this life. When men begin to believe they are perfect they no longer need Christ. Christ didn't come to save the saved. They begin looking down their noses at other Christians. Judging them and thanking God they aren't like other men. They consider them selves perfect and sinless. There is only one man who is perfect and that is Jesus Christ
MB

Indeed, but we cannoit just excuse the sinning of those over us in spiritual authority though, correct?
was the Assemblies of God wrong to require Jimmy Swaggert to step down pastoring for a year and to do serious counseling before allowed back as senior pastor?

 

[37818]

Would you agree with me also that those in spiritual leadership the OP spoke of, need to either get married to make it legit, or to stop living together?

OP:

This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.

If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power] in a life of holiness, never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.
But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential, if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin. If I do end up in such a state and die, then I find out, finally, that I wasn't one of the elect to begin with, which is why I did not persevere.

Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.

Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].

Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks

@Yeshua1
Your question makes no sense.

 

[MB]

Do confessions of sins make a person sinless that he no longer needs the grace given through Christ's atonement to have fellowship with God?

Confession is being forgiven of our sins. Paul died to sin daily. Dying to sin means he confessed his sins daily. There simply are no men with out sin because sin lives with in our flesh. Read Romans 6,7,8,
When we claim to be perfect and sinless we are placing our selves on the same level as Christ.

I once tried to live a sinless life but when I looked back on my life I could see pride welling up in side of me. I realized then that I had failed because pride is sin. I was making God out to be a liar by claiming to be perfect and sinless
MB

 

[MB]

Indeed, but we cannoit just excuse the sinning of those over us in spiritual authority though, correct?
was the Assemblies of God wrong to require Jimmy Swaggert to step down pastoring for a year and to do serious counseling before allowed back as senior pastor?

Jimmy Swaggert is not my concern That whole thing was between him and God My pastor admits that he is a sinner. Just as Paul admitted that he sinned. The only sinless pastor is Christ.
MB

 

[MB]

Would you agree with me also that those in spiritual leadership the OP spoke of, need to either get married to make it legit, or to stop living together?

Don't you know that when a man and woman is joined together they are one flesh. Marriage is God's way. any other way becomes sin.
MB

 

[Particular]

This evolutionist false teacher promotes disobedience to Mathew 5:48 as constituting a testimony to Jesus!

LOL, your digging a deep hole for yourself.

 

[Particular]

Don't you know that when a man and woman is joined together they are one flesh. Marriage is God's way. any other way becomes sin.
MB

When you have sex, you become married to that person. You become one. Government certification is irrelevant.

 

[37818]

I bave been pondering this. I can understand a new Christian having an issue of assurance. But otherwise not having assurance maybe an issue of one's salvation. 2 Corinthians 13:5 and Romans 8:9.

 

[Yeshua1]

OP:

@Yeshua1
Your question makes no sense.

Thanks, think mixing my answers, should be in another thread!

 

[Yeshua1]

Jimmy Swaggert is not my concern That whole thing was between him and God My pastor admits that he is a sinner. Just as Paul admitted that he sinned. The only sinless pastor is Christ.
MB

was the AOG right to have him placed under spiritual "probationary" period?

 

[Yeshua1]

When you have sex, you become married to that person. You become one. Government certification is irrelevant.

Its called fornication, and should not be done, especially of the couple are leaders in a church!

 

[Yeshua1]

Don't you know that when a man and woman is joined together they are one flesh. Marriage is God's way. any other way becomes sin.
MB

That is my point, they need to get married or stop sinning that way as leaders!

 

[MB]

was the AOG right to have him placed under spiritual "probationary" period?

The Bible says to confess your sin Swaggert did that. Why would you want him punished. If he hadn't confessed then they could not have legally proved he was in error. It takes two witnesses to prove such a charge. IMHO the man faced up yo it and admitted it. Does God punish the forgiven? No because they have repented. He has never recovered from it, we don't see him preaching anymore.
Everyone likes to point and say He' a sinner. We are all fallen short of the glory of God. We all need to learn to forgive. If we don't forgive we will not be forgiven our selves
MB

 

[Dave G]

This is how I understand the Perseverance of the elect in the TULIP.

If I am one of the elect, then I will persevere [by the grace of God, not of my own power].

1 Peter 1:5 among others.

in a life of holiness,

Hebrews 12:14.

never ending up in unrepentant sin but ever confessing my sins and seeking to walk with God, until the time of my death.

Repentance is a salvation "essential".
Confessing our sins is yet another evidence that our hearts have been changed, that we as believers acknowledge our sins before God ( see Psalms 51 ) and agree with Him that they are, indeed, sins.

But I haven't reached the time of my death yet, so I still have the potential, if I am not in fact of the elect but only think I am, of ending up in unrepentant sin.

All professing Christians have the potential of ending up in unrepentant sin.
The warnings are real, and yet God's love and keeping of His children is real, as well.

Jesus Christ will lose none of His sheep.

But the very real fact is, that Satan has sown "tares" ( false believers ) among the "wheat" of Christ's field ( Matthew 13:36-43 ).
According to the parable of the sower and many other passages, there are indeed people who think that they have believed on Christ, when in reality, they don't "pass muster" and are not truly born of God.

They are works -oriented "Christians" and will only ever see Christ as the means to an end.
He is not their life, nor will they ever really and truly love Him for Who He is...
Their Lord, their Master, and their loving Saviour.

They never will truly come to believe and understand His words, and they never will, despite calling Him "Lord", ever truly do good works pleasing to God ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

Only those who are born again and sanctified by the blood of His Son, can ever be credited with anything good.
Only those with the gift of God-given faith will ever persevere.
My best advice to those who are in doubt about their salvation?

Continue in the faith, and seek the Lord through His word.
Don't abandon Him when the going gets tough.
Those that do only prove that they were never in it "for the long haul", and they were never really His to begin with.

In Scripture there is man's perspective, and God's perspective.
There are the "whosoever believeths", and God's elect.

Two sides of the same coin.

 

[Dave G]

Therefore, even though I think I'm one of the elect based on the fact that I believe the gospel and seek to please God and to strive against sin and confess it, I can never be 100% sure that I am an elect, until I die in a state of perseverance.

Any child of God can be sure of their salvation.
But it is not something to be taken lightly, and comes through much self-examination and careful observation of God's work in one's life.

The evidences of God's Spirit being in one's self must be established by the truth of the Scriptures.
One must come to evidence true spiritual fruit, etc.
One must grow in both grace and knowledge, and one must be continuing in the word ( John 8:31 ), becoming grounded and settled, eventually ( Colossians 1:23 ) and never being moved away from the hope that is in Christ.

Only then can we truly identify with God's word and claim the promises of 1 John.
But even babes in Christ can be assured of their salvation...

The unwavering belief of God's word, the willingness to believe whatever God says and to receive those words as a little child, are yet more evidence that God has done a miraculous work in someone.

At the end of the day, it's all about faith.
See Hebrews 11:1.

Therefore in Calvinism, I can never have 100% assurance of salvation [I didn't say "eternal security", I said "assurance of salvation"].

Regardless of anything that John Calvin may have taught, the BIBLE teaches that a person can have 100% assurance of salvation, by the statements made in 1 John 1:1 through 1 John 5:12.
If a person can truly say that they believe and evidence every truth found there, then 1 John 5:13 assures them of their salvation.

Is my understanding correct? If not, please explain why not. Thanks

To me, what you've described regarding never being able to have assurance of one's salvation, is what the Puritans and the early "divines" believed...not born again children of the living God.

We may stumble and Satan may get us to doubting, but we know upon Whom we have believed, and are persuaded that He is able...
To keep that which we've committed, unto Him against that day ( 2 Timothy 1:12 ).
Also, we are assured that what He has begun, He will continue until the day of Christ ( Philippians 1:6 ).

Again, two sides of the same coin.

We are His workmanship, created IN Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:10 ), and chosen "in Him" from the foundation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).
But we are the ones who believe...He doesn't do that for us.

Rather, we as believers only do that because He ultimately caused us to approach Him ( Psalms 65:4 ) by graciously revealing Himself to us ( Matthew 11:27, Matthew 16:17 ) through His word ( James 1:18 ).
We believe because we are ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ), and because it has been given to us in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but to suffer for His sake ( Philippians 1:29 ).

God's children can and will boldly come to His throne of grace for their every need and eventually endure to the end in the faith that God has given to them.


I wish you well, sir.